For years, those of us who have spoken against the government school system, warning parents that the state has an agenda that is more about controlling your kids than “teaching” them, have been largely ignored or regarded as misinformed extremists.
Finally though, the public school proponents are being honest, making no attempt to disguise the way they view your children.
Most of you have probably seen the clip by Melissa-Harris Perry on MSNBC, representing the progressive liberal agenda, about “why we haven’t invested in public education as we should”.
“We have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families.” -Perry
The scariest part of it is that many Americans will be OK with what she said. And I finally understand why that is:
“The truth is that parents are one of society’s most incorrigible sources of inequality. If you have two of them who stay married and are invested in your upbringing, you’ve hit life’s lottery. You’ll reap untold benefits denied to children who aren’t so lucky. That the family is so essential to the well-being of children has to be a constant source of frustration to the egalitarian statist, a reminder of the limits of his power.” MSNBC: Kids Don’t Belong to Their Parents
To the parents who don’t want to take the time to invest into their children, and so are at their “wits end” or for whatever reason simply don’t want to do the hard work of parenting, it’s good news to them to let someone else do the work, easing their responsibility.
But, if you are a Christian parent with even a slight understanding that our children are given to us as a gift and it is our sole responsibility to steward that gift, this open agenda should cause you to yank your children out of the government’s clutches without a further thought about what else is terribly wrong with the school system.
What is the alternative, you ask? Anything. Take your pick. We have got to let go of this notion that school is a god and our children are going to fail without it. Our children are going to fail with it. Droves of them are already. What are we so afraid of? We should be willing to do anything to save them from the tyranny of the state.
Private school, homeschooling–even if it’s at night, around a work schedule–there are options. Great options. Our country’s only chance of preserving freedom and survival is dependent, I believe, on our commitment to taking back our children for the glory and purpose of God.
95 comments
Yay Kelly! This is so much of how I’ve wanted to express the [at best] uncertainty of the public school system to others! The difficulty is, I think so many parents (even us homeschool ones) also don’t want the hard work of examining ourselves and bringing our lives in line with Scripture–not out of legalism…but out of TRUST that when the Lord tells us something that is for our good, we should, at times, be willing to step off the cliff out of knowing HE is good and His wisdom endures. Certainly homeschooling is hard…certainly it would be easier to let “the state” teach our children…and I could continue in my self centered state of fleshliness by choice…but God uses our children to REFINE US…and the chisel is only useful if it’s being applied to the marble…if the chisel is in one room and the marble in another…nothing happens…
And the amazing thing is, the more our children challenge us and drive us “crazy” and we are at the end of our rope, the more driven we are to go to God and seek Him for strength, patience, love of duty and so on…and as He bestows enough strength for TODAY, our children see us walking so dependently on Him every day…that it impacts them…it must…
Laura–you are so very right about that. Easy is usually not best. To say “I can’t do it” may be exactly right. There are many days I can’t do it. We are a culture who does not understand utter dependence on God for our daily strength.
While I agree that public school isn’t always the best, I do not feel that homeschooling or private school is the answer either. I am the oldest of 8 children and if my grandmother had to homeschool all of us we would be homeless. I went to public school but we had family dinners and were actively involved in church instead of lots of extracurricular school activities. I believe there are good things and bad things about every single option of school we have to offer the children of today. Wile i am only 20 and do not have any kids of my own, I know that just being in public school did not make me a bad person, just as being an african american does not make me a bad person. I think the key is family and how your family deals with the information that comes to it. All 8 of us have a wonderful relationship with our parents and our grandmother (who single handedly raised us). I believe that is because of this relationship with a Godly woman that brought us through the beginning of our lives journey regardless of what kind of education we went through. I know plenty of home schooled christian kids who are on meth right now, who sleep around, and who have become atheist. Its not the education that makes a difference its the people who you trust and admire who really impact your life. If you don’t have a strong influence on your children (meaning you need to care about what they care about no matter how trivial it seems and be genuine in your walk with christ) then they will never believe what you believe, or follow Jesus. God Bless you all! 😀
They’ll fail, yes, but they’ll fail with a Terrific Kid sticker on Mom’s car.
That last sentence…that’s the crux. I
Yes, Kelly! I whole heartedly agree! I will not abdicate my responsibilities nor will I willing hand my children over to a godless institution whose intent is to undermine the authority and reality of the one true God! I am so tired of hearing the variations of “I’m afraid”. Things like “what if I can’t give them a good education?”, “what if I warp them for life?”, or “how will they be socialized and be able to cope in this world?”. Stop cowering to a godless society. Where are the Godly families who walk boldly and courageously in the ways of the Lord? Rise Ye Up!
Sounds very similar to the nursing home system. Your parents don’t have the right to choose how to run their lives, we will decide what is best.
The vulnerable should never belong to a government system. The vulnerable of Germany belonged to Nazi regime. We know what happened there.
Its time to stand up and stand strong. We may not be “perfect” in the eyes of man, but we need to stand despite that!
Perhaps that is your personal goal as a teacher…. But it certainly is not the goal of the Public school system as a whole! They have a very clear agenda….. We are far past the point of saying ” well, there are good, Christian teachers….. ” Or my personal favorite ” OH our school is NOT like that… We are different.” …. No the evidence is in…. The system has failed and is continuing to fail… And all everybody wants to do is throw more money at it!
Also, what you see as “paranoia” is called parental concern and responsibility! It used to be pretty common not too long ago! it has just become such a lost concept in this brave new world that people think it is strange when they encounter it…… We are so used to just making our children someone else’s problem that when we run into a family who actually thinks about what their children might be learning…. Or questions whether the public system is really best, or parents who actually ENJOY the responsibility of teaching and training their own children…. well, those people must just be weird right.? Kind of unreal actually!
Oops…. This was supposed to be in reply to Gretchen…..
Many of us have said the schools believe these types of things for years, only to be called paranoid and conspiracy believers. Wonder what those who called us that are saying now that we are proven right? I haven’t heard any apologies from those who have said it to me yet. Why the silence?
I guess I am of the knowledge (not belief because it’s true and factual) that my children belong to God, given to me and my husband with the responsibility and command to raise them according to His word. If I chose to utilize the public school system (which we don’t), they still don’t belong to anyone other than God and our family.
I have a really good friend who teaches in a public school. She is one of the strongest Christian’s that I know! She shares her faith(when she can with these kids) She see’s the heartache they go through in life because parents give the responsibility to them..The Teachers. Not all parents but lots of them. She was a homeschool mom herself for many years until her kids grew up and her husband left her.She really makes a difference in the lives of these kids! I’m sure many Christian teachers do! It really is like a ministry to her.
Now,with that being said..She is still for homeschooling! She knows the difference it makes.
Several years ago, our county in Florida was to be the first county to offer Aids testing-without parental consent. Although I was homeschooling I went to some of the meetings with a friend from church whose kids were in public high school. She was opposed as were many. I went to public school but I was never so stunned to see what was happening and what was said. I actually heard one of the school board panel whom I had met during a homeschool evaluation years before make this comment. “Before kids get to school, kids are messed up with what there parents have taught them”..I Am Not Kidding!! I looked at my friend and said “Did I just hear her correctly”..My children were much younger at the time and my friend had tears in her eyes and said she felt so bad for me.(Her kids were almost finished with school).
They did pass the aids test thing.I honestly don’t know if they still do it.There was so much more then the aids issue testing going on there. I know there are alot of good teachers who do make the difference and I’m thankful for them. I have good friends in those positions and they talk alot about the heartache.My very good teacher friend gets stuck with alot of extra school projects she has to do to secure her job and make the school look good!
Homeschooling is hard! As a mom to four adults that are finished now-I’m just going to say this..When you feel like giving up-Don’t!! I’m speaking to myself here also ladies. I’m still schooling two teens! See the big picture. See them as functioning adults because they will be there sooner then you think. I honestly don’t know if my adult kids would be where they are today if we hadn’t homeschooled them. Christian Education makes a difference! It is a lifestyle!! They learn much along the way besides subjects too!
Most of all..Teach them to love the Lord.Have them hide His word in their hearts! They will come back to it.One of my kids went through a Hard relationship issue in their very early 20’s.It threatened to rip our family apart. I really do believe that the years we spent so much time together schooling made a huge difference.It is all water under the bridge now(as we call it)but I’m so thankful for our many years homeschooling. As they get older,the Lord will open doors for them for more schooling(I highly recommend Christian college) if you do the college thing full time.Why do we want to give them a Christian Education their whole lives and then send them to a secular college? Just my personal opinion.Just because it may be a Christian college also does not mean there will not be issues there also.Just my personal opinion.
Our three older ones at 29, 26, and 24 have all bought their own vehicles, work full time and are financially independent and by that I mean pay all there own bills. They still live home and do pay rent.They have all had moments at there jobs and life where they have had to deal with “stuff”..and they have been able to do it.I’m not saying this to brag but to tell you that for all those who will say to you “How will your kids function in the real world”..Do you know how many times I heard that when my kids were growing up?? and it scared me to death sometimes. I had to learn to give that fear to the Lord and trust him!! He is faithful!! If we do what He has called us to do..He will equip us and our kids!! Now..I’m off of here to go Do what He has called me to!! Have a Great day Moms!!
Keri,
It’s encouraging that you shared about your son with struggles in his twenties…we struggle with one and I trust and pray and keep doing what you said–hiding God’s Word in their hearts.
Actually,it was with a daughter..By his mercy and grace- His mercies are New Every Morning!!
Also, I would just like to say to those her are now throwing nasty accusations at Kelly(not that she needs me to defend her)..
I think she was just trying to show us what some of the public school teachers say about all of this. I do understand as I read some of these other comments what these teachers face everyday and my heart goes out to them as they try to teach kids coming from very poor backgrounds and parents who are not involved.
It could be a teenage identity crisis thing. Don’t worry. He will get over it. He just have to go through it first. I will be praying for your son.
Well…we don’t homeschool, though we have considered it. My oldest has dyslexia and I truly can’t help him learn as well as the amazing teachers at his private school. Public school was a nightmare and changed my whole perspective on public school. They treated him like a burden and clearly conveyed to him that they saw him as dumb and beyond hope. His dyslexia impairment is fairly severe and requires a lot of special tricks, compensations and teaching strategies and methods. I tried to teach him to read (reading came naturally to me as a toddler, I was three and reading books) but what makes sense to me is Sanskrit to my son and I barely got him out of kindergarten level sight words when we pulled him out of public school and into a Montessori school for second grade. Best and most expensive decision ever.
Next year he will go to a local Catholic school renowned for how it educates and LOVES kids with learning issues and kids that are academically gifted…so all three of my boys can go there. Again…very pricey, but our children are part of a large family beyond our immediate one, that consists of our parents and siblings and everyone helps us pay Elijah’s tuition out of love for him.
I find that in these private schools there is a concern for the heart and soul of my children that did not exist in public. Elijah was a number there…only of use because of the extra federal money his autism diagnosis brought in (he is now undiagnosed, thank the Lord and his guidance to my heart and mind about how to help my sweet son) and otherwise he was little more than warehoused and labeled and hurt emotionally in endless ways. If I had the tools to properly teach my son, I would have, but he is one kid that needs all the time with as many other kids every day as possible….that proximity and contact results in friendships he would not have otherwise.
I really enjoy your blog and it is lovely to see a post about education that acknowledges that private school can be an option that works for a child and his family, without harming them. It has been a blessing for us beyond measure. I have learned so much from his teachers about how to encourage and help him, they are doing good things in that little school.
I find that video incredibly chilling every time I see it. This notion that we should all grow up to be part of the “collective” and that parents should not be controlling the upbringing of the children entrusted to them is not only disturbing, but it breaks with centuries of history in this country. Sadly, history is taught so poorly in many schools that I suspect many members of the public are just listening to things like the video you mention, nodding, and not realizing what they’re hearing. Seeing things like this reminds me why, as a Christian, we need to be culture builders instead of culture followers.
It is just so prevalent in American society that nothing is ever your responsibility or fault. Of course this would trickle down to what parents think of their kids (ie. “I cannot wait for school to start” because their kids are so ‘burdensome’.) And, if their kids end up uneducated, they can always blame the district, the school and the teachers. If my kid ends up the same way, I can look only in the mirror….. that is daunting, this whole taking responsibility for our own kids. 😉
Kelly, after having gone through the intense pain of childbirth after a long and exhausting pregnancy it is quite something to discover that my child actually belongs to the community!!! 🙁
As a retired public school teacher I know that the only hope for America is to rescue our children from government schools. Please see http://www.insectman.us/exodus-mandate-wv/index.htm.
I am a homeschooling mom and I was chilled by what was said in the clip. However, we have to keep the context in mind. This woman struggles in the 9th ward of New Orleans where parental involvement is a dream for most kids. This environment leads to teachers who eventually feel as if they are the only ones who care about the future of these kids. The chip this puts on their shoulder is an extreme burden to bear. It starts to skew their thinking in obvious ways. We can’t lose our concern for the disadvantaged children of the world. Not all kids are dropped off by mom’s who are at their “wit’s end” in that privileged yuppie way we often think of when we think of public school. We need to pray for these kids and their teachers who see things we can’t even imagine.
You know, I quite frankly am sick and tired of your comments that because i don’t homeschool my children, then I obviously don’t want to invest in my children, or that I must not be a christian. For your proclamations that you are a Christian, I cannot believe how judgemental and unchristlike you sound. You are living your life the best to your ability and I think that’s great but not everyone is you and your family or is married to a husband like yours. And yes, I have been a long time reader and I know and understand that this is your blog, but the tone is quite offensive.
“What is the alternative, you ask? Anything….Private school…”
I haven’t said anything about “homeschooling only”; I’ve simply made a plea that Christian parents realize that the government want to control their children and that ANY option is better. To accuse me of being judgmental or harsh over that is, well, unbelievable.
If your child were in a burning building and you didn’t seem to notice, would be judgmental or harsh of me to jump and down and even yell at you, if needed, to get your attention?
If I didn’t care about others’ children, why ON EARTH would I bother with this controversial topic? If it didn’t matter, to you, and ultimately to all of us because we all reap the consequences of the way we raise the next generation, why would I care?
Do you think there were a few people, in Hitler’s time, who tried to get parents to see the danger of his agenda? Consider this lady I’ve quoted in the post, and then consider a quote by Hitler:
If anything, parents should be THANKING the people that see the danger besetting their children, not kicking them in the shins.
If you feel so guilty about it that you have to berate me, perhaps you should consider why you are so offended and what you are really struggling with at the heart of it all.
I CARE ABOUT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN. That’s the only reason for this post.
Children don’t belong to their parents or anyone else. They belong to the Lord. There are lots of right ways to raise children. It depends on the family, the schools, the context generally. Some parents are awesome, dedicated homeschoolers and some are sloppy, not educated enough to do it properly, abusive, or mentally ill. Our public school is great, truly–not perfect, but not some communal breeding ground for evil. Some are awful, many are mediocre, and some children do well in one environment and not in another.
We Christians would do well to focus on keeping our own houses in order and not worry so much about what “those other people” are doing wrong. We tend to put people down as a way of defending our own choices way too often. Righteous indignation is a toxin in the Christian community.
Madge,
Refer to the above Hitler quote, quite similar to the one made by Perry. It didn’t serve Germany well at all for everyone to “mind their own business” and neither will it serve us. We are all connected and the direction of our future GREATLY depends on how our children are educated. That affects me and you. I’m not the type to sit back and watch our country fall apart because I was afraid of hurting someone’s feelings. We’re past feelings. We’re in a crisis. Righteous indignation is not our problem; apathy is.
Alluding to Hitler is a dead giveaway that the shark has been jumped, reason has been disregarded, and hyperbole and righteous indignation has taken over. OF COURSE we are all connected and OF COURSE it matters how we raise our children. Who mentioned hurt feelings? One thing I do not read here is apathy.
Not really. Even a cursory study of Hitler’s tactics show that skillful manipulation and subtlety can bamboozle otherwise rational, thinking people.
It would be nice if an allusion to Hitler were crazy, irrational and nonsensical, which it would be if society could never produce another human being who could conceive of the things Hitler did. Then the Internet invention of Godwins law would be more than a mind numbing cliche.
So I would contend that the world is in fact full of Hitlers – just read the old Testament. Genocides, slavery, captivities were the way of life for thousands of years. Herod’s slaughter of baby boys and the persecution of Christians (ever been a human torch at a party? ) showed the presence of evil didn’t let up in New Testament times. Hitler wasn’t even the worst evil of the 20th century, Stalin killed more people than Hitler, and he was our ally.
Thus the burden of proof is on you to prove that another Hitler will never exist, and the evils that occurred under his well known regime will never happen again before you denigrate anybody for warning of the danger of evil.
obviously there are bad people in the world. “government schools” are not the cause or breeding ground for them in a unique way. Plenty of sociopaths come from the kind of isolated, extreme, religiously rigid environments that some people who homeschool create for their families. That doesn’t make calling them nazis valid or helpful.
Let’s not diminish the actual Holocaust, the death of 6 million Jewish people and five million other religious and social minorities, by saying everything we don’t like culturally is the next Nazi infiltration and everyone we are threatened by is the next Hitler. Doing so diminishes the credibility of the argument and keeps us off topic.
Most everyone I know is doing the best job they can raising their kids. There are outliers, and we all do this imperfectly, but focusing on how badly other people are presumably doing doesn’t make us better. It just makes some people feel better in an unhealthy way.
madge, I think the point is government schools breed the victims. As you rightly point out, no single climate has the monopoly on churning out monsters (Stalin studied for the Orthodox priesthood); but government schools do have a monopoly on churning out Germans (who thought they were free) and Soviets (who begged to serve in Stalin’s armies). Until you or any other Godwins’ Law advocate can prove that these evils won’t happen again, and aren’t fostered by the social constructs Kelly is warning against, you can’t denigrate the watchman.
People who are posting about how oppressed and marginalized they are as homeschoolers (who–gasp–have to pay taxes and drive on public roads and benefit from public services against their wills) manage to “play the victim” quite well.
Many taxes are unconstitutional.
“Could America exist without an income tax? The idea seems radical, yet in truth America did just fine without a federal income tax for the first 126 years of its history. Prior to 1913, the government operated with revenues raised through tariffs, excise taxes, and property taxes, without ever touching a worker’s paycheck. In the late 1800s, when Congress first attempted to impose an income tax, the notion of taxing a citizen’s hard work was considered radical! Public outcry ensued; more importantly, the Supreme Court ruled the income tax unconstitutional.
The harmful effects of the income tax are obvious. First and foremost, it has enabled government to expand far beyond its proper constitutional limits, regulating virtually every aspect of our lives. It has given government a claim on our lives and work, destroying our privacy in the process. It takes billions of dollars out of the legitimate private economy, with most Americans giving more than a third of everything they make to the federal government. This economic drain destroys jobs and penalizes productive behavior. The ridiculous complexity of the tax laws makes compliance a nightmare for both individuals and businesses. All things considered, our Founders would be dismayed by the income tax mess and the tragic loss of liberty which results.
America without an income tax would be far more prosperous and far more free…” -Ron Paul, one of the smartest men alive
I think you all are missing the point in your paranoia ( which it really does sound paranoid to those of us who don’t homeschool). teach public school and believe me, would love to have the dedication most parents who homeschool have with the children in my classroom. I have to beg some of my parents to even read with their children. I do not believe your children belong to me, nor does anyone else I teach with. I spend my days teaching writing, math, science, social studies and so on. I think her point was that we need to care and worry about all of our children. She is teaching in one of the poorest areas of the country where yes, government dependency is a way of life. I teach on a military base where that too is the case. They are some of the worst parents I have ever seen in terms of meeting basic needs of their kids. THAT is what she is talking about. Listen, everyone is doing what they feel is right for their children and I have no doubt all of you do the same. However, when I see quotes about Hitler, statements about “government schools”, etc I have to feel that you have missed the point. Having healthy, productive, hardworking students is my goal everyday while I teach. I am sure it is your goal for your children as well.
Perhaps that is your personal goal as a teacher…. But it certainly is not the goal of the Public school system as a whole! They have a very clear agenda….. We are far past the point of saying ” well, there are good, Christian teachers….. ” Or my personal favorite ” OH our school is NOT like that… We are different.” …. No the evidence is in…. The system has failed and is continuing to fail… And all everybody wants to do is throw more money at it!
Also, what you see as “paranoia” is called parental concern and responsibility! It used to be pretty common not too long ago! it has just become such a lost concept in this brave new world that people think it is strange when they encounter it…… We are so used to just making our children someone else’s problem that when we run into a family who actually thinks about what their children might be learning…. Or questions whether the public system is really best, or parents who actually ENJOY the responsibility of teaching and training their own children…. well, those people must just be weird right.? Kind of unreal actually!
“Listen, everyone is doing what they feel is right for their children and I have no doubt all of you do the same. ”
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes,
but a wise man listens to advice. Proverbs 12:5
Read Judges 17. Micah thought he could bring a little religion into his otherwise pagan life and that would make everything okay. He even hired his own personal priest but continued to worship idols. Adding a veneer of Christianity (or Judaism, in this case) to a core of pagan practices does not satisfy the Lord. It didn’t then and it still doesn’t today.
“If anything, parents should be THANKING the people that see the danger besetting their children, not kicking them in the shins.”
Ok. Kelly, your kids are not living in reality. Their homeschool bubble is going to bust one day and it will not be pretty. By not exposing them to a variety of people and ideas you have done them a huge disservice. They will not be able to cope when a transvestite hooker asks them for directions. When their child’s playmate has 2 dads they will hide under the kitchen sink. When the real world hits them like a ton of bricks they will run away screaming.
I have seen myself homeschool children fall flat on their face. And, literally, run away crying when real world goes down.
Really, you should be thanking me. I care about your children. I’m sure you will be thanking me now. Keep spewing your hate, but don’t forget to say grace… 😉
Laura,
It’s “burst”, not “bust”.
Are you going to correct everyones’ grammar or just the people you disagree with?
Just the people “with whom I disagree”.
Laura,
Normally I would delete a comment like this, but I have to say, this is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read! And my facebook friends REALLY had fun with it–thank you!
I guess you wouldn’t be interested in the reality: about my daughter who works at Sav-a-Life, ministering to promiscuous drug-addicts, or to the trip she’s making to New York tomorrow with another young, homeschool graduate…they’ll probably freak out on the train ride by themselves. But I appreciate the heads up about preparing her to give directions to a transvestite hooker. I feel certain she will encounter that situation next week, and certainly giving directions to such a person would be vastly different than giving them to anyone else. So we’ll do a crash-course to get her prepared 😉
LOL Kelly!
I just had this mental picture of my son (who goes witnessing on the city streets and has witnessed at the gay pride parade before) running down the street screaming after a confrontation with a homosexual! Too funny! He never cried either.
LOL, Kelly and Jane! Yep, those scaredy-cat homeschooled kids… My oldest daughter, who was homeschooled from kindergarten through 12th grade, was so scared of her college instructor who was born male but had an — ahem — surgery 😉 that she went running, I mean stayed in his class, laughing her way through the whole semester, and then…
signed up for an advanced level course the next semester with the same instructor!
Yep, shaking in her boots she was, that whole freshman year, being in those ELECTIVE classes 😀
My daughter would have a good laugh at you, Laura!
😀
Why was she laughing? Did she find such a huge life-turn for the instructor amusing?
Six Arrows, this reply was for you.
Hi Jennifer,
My daughter has a very bubbly personality, and sees the humor in a lot of things, and this instructor had quite a sense of humor, too. My point was that my daughter was able to be herself, laughing at his jokes and so on, and was not afraid of being in a class with a surgically-altered male who calls himself a woman, a type of person Laura seems to think homeschooled kids would be unable to cope with, or would run away and hide from. My daughter’s laughing wasn’t about the instructors life-turn, but was a reflection of her being comfortable in the class, not being a frightened little creature trying to escape a situation that was different than any prior experiences she’d had.
Alright, that’s reassuring. Thanks.
New York, or New York City? Will they have other people with them?
Darn it, this should have been after Kelly’s post, I’m asking about Bria’s trip.
Not NY city…and yes, they will be by themselves. My mother heart needs prayer 😉 It was her Dad who said “yes”. I generally say “no” any time there is question of my children driving really far away in the opposite direction of me. I guess I’m one of those over-protective homeschool moms.
As long as they’re not in NYC alone, and yes I’ll pray 🙂
Laura, comparing what Kelly has put up(this article)Does Not compare her to the people at Westboro Baptist Church. We all know what they are about!
Are you a Christian? Why would you honestly think that Kelly’s kids are going to fall and not be able to deal with the real world?
I have four grown kids that were homeschooled.Let me tell you some of the things they have dealt with. One grown son was approached from behind on a tall condo he was working on and was so surprised by the person who came up behind him that he dropped a five hundred dollar walkie talkie. He turned around to see the guy running but not before he recognized who it was. Someone who was very opposed to my sons faith, that he never tried to shove down anyones throat. Same son-because of his faith wouldn’t join in the filthy talk and porn that some of the grown married men would look at on the job. He had one guy tell him he was a satanist and was praying for my son. He didn’t run and cry. Another guy..boldly..went after my son. He didn’t fall apart. Those were just a couple of things. My other son..boldly aprroached by a gay man didn’t run and hide.As a matter of fact, after my son told me the conversation he had,it made me cry because of the compassion of my son. This same son..once lost a job because of his faith and stand on something. He didn’t cower in a corner somewhere. He went out and got another job.These are just a couple incidents.
Now, onto the daughters..One daughter when she should have completely fallen apart for life because of something that happened to her- Stood for what she believed and Trusted God and moved on with her life. Without giving details here..I will just say that it was so Bad that I told my Husband that if this has happened to me at that age, I am Pretty Sure I would have Walked away from Christianity!! It was done by Christian People!! She didn’t..She pursued the truth and trusted and went on with her life! She has also had situations in her work and life that she has been able to deal with head on!!
My youngest daughter at only 20 who has just the sweetest and purest heart for God that I have ever seen..recently..Had a relative get in her face and I mean practically put her face in his hands and tell her with seething disdain “How narrow minded she was”..and she didn’t Cower or fall apart.She handled it! I just wanted to give some clear examples here. Why do people think that just because these kids if they are homeschooled that they will not have a Clear understanding of How things are in this world and not deal with them. You may have seen some kids fall apart over things that have happened to them(If they are homeschooled or not-couldn’t that happen to any of us at times).
Kelly..don’t listen! I’m off my soapbox!!
I will pray for your daughter further, how awful.
Umm… you act like being appalled at wickedness is a bad thing. Of course homeschooled kids (me included) will need some adjusting. But no way is it as drastic as you make it sound. And who says she isn’t exposing her kids to a variety of people and ideas? Of course she is! Are you saying that shoving your kids in the company of drugs, sex, cussing, and athiesm for 8 hours every day is the right way to introduce them to the world? Or wouldn’t it be better to simply teach them about these things, how wicked they are, and use encounters like this s teaching opportunities? I am a homeschool senior. The track season started a couple months ago, and I decided to join the track team at our local high school. I went for two weeks before I quit. I simply could not hear the f-word in every sentence, or hear someone be called the b-word one more time. I didn’t want to be the object of any more crude comments from boys when I ran. And you know what? If I had gone to school my whole life, it wouldn’t have bugged me at all. I wouldn’t have thought twice about it. I would have become so desensitized that I wouldn’t even notice it. Is that what you think is right? And I don’t totally agree with Kelly either. I think it’s a little bit overboard. But so what? She’s not “spewing hate” as you say. She is saying what she believes to be right. If more people were brave enough to do that, the world would be a much better place.
So glad you posted this. I was not surprised when I heard this belief but I was disgusted. Our way of society is just to make everything more artificial and less personal. It adds middle-men to everything, creates confusion and chaos and nothing can get done. Imagine if children were not raised by parents. Who would care about them? I write this in all honesty but I’ve never thought I could babysit other people’s children long-term while also raising my own because I just think I would show more attention to my own children or give mine at least more attention if mine and the other child needed it at the same time. It just seems instinctual to me. Maybe not, I’ve never done it but I know the more PERSONAL something is, the more I’ve personally invested in a person, place, whatever, the more I care. That’s how it works, not just for me, for humans.
I am still trying to figure out why people are so offended at what Kelly says on her blog, but are not offended by what that lady said on
MSNBC. Individual teachers can be great, but the SYSTEM is what is scary.
I am friends with a lady that is very involved with politics on the local level. Her eight grade daughter brought home a worksheet from her civics class (against teachers orders, it was not to leave the classroom). It listed “facts” about different political parties such as.
Conservatives like to preserve traditional moral values by RESTRICTING PERSONAL FREEDOMS (bold mine).
Liberals want equality and personal freedom for everyone.
Conservatives are the wealthy few, liberals are the voice of the underprivileged.
During the civil rights movement Conservatives argued AGAINST legislation while liberals demanded legislation to that would make racial discrimination a crime.
Not only do they have their “facts” wrong, but they knew in order to win the hearts of the children on this matter they had to keep parents out of the loop. That is why they were told not to bring the materials home. This mother demanded to see the materials for this class used all over our district for the past 9 years or so. For 9 years children have been brainwashed. It was a 50 page packet full of lies and rewritten history.
I have always wondered where people got the idea that conservatives were for the wealthy, racists, now I know they learned it in school!!!
I have never sent my children to a public school and I am so thankful we still have the freedom to NOT send them. But I do believe that freedom may not always be there. We need to pray.
Wow.
This mother has posted the entire packet online through facebook and already it is going viral, so you may just see for yourself. (If I knew how to paste a document from facebook I would share it.)
Rachel,
I saw something online that sounds like what you’re talking about. It was a crossword puzzle with definitions very much like what you’ve described in your post.
Also troubling was what was on the backside of that worksheet — a political survey students were required to fill out to identify their beliefs. Let me see if I can get the link to that survey to work:
http://eagnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/crossword-back-survey.jpg
I am just speechless. Thank you for sharing…
Kelly, Did my last comment(a long one..lol) get stuck in your spam file? Let me know. I may repost it.
Keri–my server is down and I can’t get to my dashboard to check…I’m trying to get it resolved, so if/when I do, I’ll unleash it 😉 We are bracing for severe storms so I’m in and out.
I am about 100 miles north of you in Ardmore. This has been the slowest moving storm. We got damage in 2011 (nothing like y’all) so my kids have sat here scared all day!
Jennifer–I’m sorry. Yes, it’s taking a great deal of intentionality to keep our wildest fears at bay. Stay safe…
You guys stay safe, too, Kelly. I’m praying for you.
Thank you!
Don’t worry about it! Stay safe in those storms. Praying!!
Kelly,
I couldn’t agree more with this post. I saw that video the other day and it is just so disturbing. Thank you for bringing it to light and using your platform here to educate others. Do not heed those who seek to discourage you and cow you into silence. You are such a huge encouragement and blessing to me and so many others. Thank you for fighting the good fight!
I just watched the clip. Scary stuff. However … if children belong to the community, then it’s time to get rid of abortion. If you have an abortion now, then you are aborting “our” child.
Flies in the face of logic, doesn’t it?
Joy,
Oooh…what an interesting thought.
I believe context and meaning is important. This is where critical thinking and a little research comes in. Ms. Perry expanded on what she meant and, personally, I agree with much of what she said.
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/09/why-caring-for-children-is-not-just-a-parents-job/
People are up in arms over a 30-second clip, so yes it does make you look like a misinformed extremist. By all means, disagree with what she has to say…but use discernment and patience when approaching another side to an issue. An issue as complex as the one she’s talking about cannot be gleaned from a little commercial. I’d hope you would know better than that.
LVH
Please don’t condescend to me. There isn’t a conservative person alive, intelligent or otherwise, who isn’t concerned. It’s the ones who aren’t concerned who appear to have their head buried in the sand, already drinking the Koolaid. Personally, I’m not interested in discussing it with those types of people; they are too far gone and desensitized to listen. People like you and people like me just think FAR too differently. Don’t waste your breath here.
I come here because I am interested in open discussion and different viewpoints within the Christian community. You’re passionate in what you believe and I wanted to hear what you say, but you’re right, perhaps I should stop commenting.
Your methods of argument and discussion are very dishonest. Instead of researching why Ms. Perry said what she said or maybe a better explanation for what she said, you decided to take her quote and somehow make it into a “I told you so” post for your bloggers.
It is not my intention to be condescending, but your posts lack critical thinking and basic research. You continuously like to take quotes out of context as some way to prove your argument. One of the most basic ways to make an argument on an issue is to fully understand the other side. By reducing the issue of public education to “parents who don’t want to invest their time or energy or responsibility for their children”, shows a clear lack of understanding and, perhaps, willful ignorance of how complex the education issue really is; even within Christian communities.
Kelly, it seems to be you who has her head buried in the sand—not willing to listen and understand the multitude of reasons why Christian and/or non-Christian parents send their kids to public school. It’s far easier to paint people with a broad brush, citing that they’re drinking the Kool-Aid, than to accept or even consider that these very people have thought through the issue themselves, prayed about it, and made what they believed to be the best choice for their family. They don’t believe in this “government tyranny” or “agenda” that you speak of, and they have the arguments and research to go with it.
LVH,
I don’t take quotes out of context, I add them to the numerous other information that exists that supports the ongoing revelation of government agenda. The difference is, you and many others don’t see a problem with socialism, or with eroding the traditional values of family and society, or the numerous other things going on, deliberately, openly, and without apology. As a Christian, I do have a huge problem with it, and so should we all, but because public education is such a “sacred cow” many parents haven’t taken the time to realize what’s going on.
The very function of the institution itself erodes values that we should hold dear; that is, taking money from one person to fund another person’s education is socialism and it’s not good for our country. I’m opposed to Pub. ed. from that standpoint alone, much less all the other stuff that goes with it.
You don’t have to look far or dig very deeply to see the progressive erosion of virtue, ethics and morality deliberately being perpetuated through the classroom, even when teachers themselves aren’t aware of it (the frog is the least aware of the slowly heating water). Now you may not disagree with all the things I disagree with about the system, but that doesn’t make me wrong.
LVH,
I wasn’t going to comment, but your posts invite critique, so here goes.
I come here because I am interested in open discussion and different viewpoints within the Christian community.
So do you disagree with everything Kelly writes? I don’t recall ever seeing a comment from you where you agree with her. If you find some common ground with her on something (and it’s hard to imagine why you would spend time here if you agree on absolutely nothing), why do we never hear from you *then*? Just wondering.
It is not my intention to be condescending…
And yet, you have this to say to Kelly in your first post: “I’d hope you would know better than that.” Sounds condescending to me. Shall I say that I’d hope you would know better than to say something like that when you don’t want to sound condescending? Wouldn’t that be rather condescending of me?
…your posts lack critical thinking and basic research.
And unfortunately, LVH, your posts lack critical Biblical analysis. We can always count on plenty of liberal media sources from you, but your ability to argue with Scripture as your authority is almost nonexistent from what I’ve seen.
One of the most basic ways to make an argument on an issue is to fully understand the other side.
You may (or may not) be interested to know that I have been involved in just about every kind of schooling there is. I’ve commented plenty on education-related issues on Kelly’s blog; if you’d like to read my perspective on those types of issues, LVH, check out Kelly’s education posts, and you’ll see plenty of my comments the last two years. If reading about people’s various experiences is important to you, then I’ll let you know a little of my educational background. As a student, I was educated in a one-room country school(!) — yes, I am dating myself 😉 — in a Christian school for middle school, and in a public high school and university. As an adult, I taught public school, sent my two oldest children to Christian school for a brief time, and have homeschooled (and still am). I don’t have time to rehash what I’ve said on the topic (and probably won’t have time to even respond to any reply you have to this post of mine), but I will say (in case I haven’t made it clear in my past posts) that I don’t think experience trumps Scripture. Experiences vary, and we can learn some things from them, but Scripture stands firm; it is Truth, unchanging Truth. Without a solidly Biblical worldview, the experiences of others (or even our own) can’t be properly filtered and understood, in light of Scripture, as to whether they are beneficial or detrimental. In other words, others’ experiences make a poor guide for us to follow when we’re not able to examine those experiences through a Biblical lens.
Well, I have more that I could say, but it’s late and enough is enough, huh? 😉 Have a good weekend, LVH.
Hi 6 arrows! 🙂
I don’t comment too often, because I usually like to soak in a lot and think about what is being said via Kelly or commenters. Most of the time when I comment, it isn’t about agreeing with her or disagreeing with her, it’s pointing out that her methods of presenting an argument are often weak or unsupported.
Wisdom, truth, discernment are all elements and themes within Scripture. I’ll be more than happy to pull verses if need be.
So my question is, as a Christian, when we sit down and we watch T.V and we see this 30 second commercial come on and this woman says ““We have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families.”, do we rush to our computers, to Facebook, to twitter or the phone and start pointing and saying “See..see…look at what this woman said? Your kids don’t belong to you!
No doubt, what she said in those 30 seconds sounded very controversial, but I believe that is room for pause and for us to put our critical thinking skills to action; to find out more information before responding. I posted Ms. Perry’s article above and it makes much more sense when she explained what she meant. By all means, disagree with her and that’s okay but not over an out-of-context quote. That’s what I mean by using discernment.
I have provided biblical support on posts, in the past, where I believed it was relevant to the discussion. I believe one of those posts was regarding roles of women and men. I’m sure I could dig it up if you’d like.
Lastly, there is someone who I very much admire when it comes to tackling tough issues from a Christian perspective. Albert Mohler. While there are some areas in which I disagree with him, he does a wonderful job at presenting a conservative Christian view. I don’t expect Kelly to be a theologian or scholar but I believe she has a lot more to learn when it comes to presenting her ideas and arguments. She is passionate about certain issues and I greatly admire that—that is why I keep coming back. 🙂
**Kelly, I apologize for being condescending. I truly mean that.
I tripped on the first paragraph of Ms. Harris-Perry’s article. I couldn’t help noticing the irony of your complaints about Kelly’s framing of her arguments with Ms. H-Ps’ opening salvo ” hateful, personal attacks…as a result of conservative reactions” and “right’s teapot”. Based on her opening paragraph alone, I think perhaps you are doing Ms. H-P a disservice by underestimating her choice of words. She may paint a pretty picture around them, but she chose them very carefully for the Lean Forward advertisement for the response she hoped and knew they would generate.
And that picture? Wow. It was breathtaking. Everyone who is posting on here really MUST read your link to Ms. H-P’s expanded explanation of her comments. It so, so with perfect clarity highlights the difference between Kelly, and the Christians (I hope) who want to protect our children from government influences and Ms. H-P who wants to use government influence, not perhaps to sell our children into slavery, but just to control our actions and lives and decisions we make for our children.
That difference is servanthood. As Christians, we want to do those things Ms H-P witnessed others doing, picking up a kid who’s mother is ill, volunteering to help underprivileged kids in daycares, keeping an eye on the safety of children in our neighborhood as they go to school, because as Christians we are called and desire to serve others in any way we can help them through their lives.
We ask nothing in return. We make no demands with our service. Christians teachers remain in the public school system because they feel called to serve other there. Ms. H-P doesn’t understand unselfish service for Christ. She can only accomplish the effects of service by reframing the whole relationship integrity and structure of the family into a socialistic commune under a powerful authoritarian government.
And most chillingly of all, she even addresses Joy’s thoughts on abortion above. Maybe you really don’t want to read her article. God have mercy.
Well-said, Lucy. I always wanted to point out that LVH’s accusation of my “taking her words out of context” doesn’t make sense. I linked to the ad in its entirety; the whole thing said what it said, and I commented on it. Oh she did back-peddle a bit in her follow up, but the original statement and my response wasn’t taken out of context.
Hi LVH,
I think Kelly and Lucy have spoken well in their responses to you, and I don’t have anything to add today to what they have said. However, I will say that I agree with you and also admire Kelly’s passion about certain subjects, and it keeps me coming back too! 🙂 Blessings.
LVH,
The reason I think you’re wrong accusing me of having weak or unsupported arguments, is because there ARE thousands of reasons to believe what I believe about a negative agenda in the public school system, many of which I’ve cited and provided evidence of throughout this blog. The fact that not everyone may see it is because it can be subtle and we can choose to look away when the system meets some of our very important needs. Subtlety is the most dangerous of all. And yet, even when it’s blatant, public school supporters run to the defense, still blind.
Since you prefer citing and you admitted that you respect Mohler’s insight, let me start with one of his:
http://www.albertmohler.com/2006/04/21/indoctrination-in-the-public-schools-another-warning-from-massachusetts/
As I said before, it may be that you simply don’t have a problem with the school system trying to subvert the authority and value system of parents, but to say that there is none of that going on is most certainly evident of your head being buried in the sand.
Whether it’s students being given birth control without parental knowledge, or taught a sex education outside of parental authority, or students told to not take a certain assignment home (huge red flag) or parents being punished/questioned for trying to exercise authority when they disagree with a class or method, or a pervasive homosexual agenda that wants to dismantle every shred of traditional family values–it’s all going on. You can admit to not caring, but you cannot fairly say I’m “blowing it out of proportion”.
(Even the snippet of the civics class curriculum, that Rachel posted above, is laden with blatant brain-washing tactics.)
LVH,
Oh, and there’s this just in…but I wouldn’t want to be guilty of taking things out of context or blowing things out of proportion according to reality…
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/12/dad-furious-after-finding-this-crayon-written-paper-in-florida-4th-graders-backpack-i-am-willing-to-give-up-some-of-my-constitutional-rights/
The public school system is broken as many recognize. Individual families need not be offended when others recommend homeschooling or private Christian schools. I’m offended that pastors, on average, do not promote homeschooling/Christian schooling. Here are 32 reasons why pastors fail to promote Christian schooling
http://hissheeptracks.com/hst/?p=472
WOW! That was pretty interesting…thank you so much for sharing! It also saddens me greatly to see/read this because the Christian lifestyle is a 24/7 decision, not a one-day-a-week type of commitment. I certainly feel that Pastors, as leaders of a flock should most definitely being leading their fold towards homeschooling and/or Christian schools. It shouldn’t be about the money, but sadly the almighty dollar seems to intrude upon our Churches a bit too much. Church finances & politics pushed me away from the Church at one point. I thank God everyday for leading my family to a Church that is more about ministry and a Christian lifestyle and not about politics & money.
Since you state, “…hateful or angry responses will be removed at my discretion,” I can only imagine the content of the posts you remove. I usually quit reading the comments because they appear to be written to provoke, not truly discuss. I only hope and pray that conservative, Bible-believing Christians don’t deliberately attack on liberal comment threads. I can only speak from experience: I was raised in a very liberal home. My parents were not protective, and read the newspaper as gospel truth. I followed suit. I learned much in public school and public universities: I was brainwashed about abortion (life is defined by….YOU), brainwashed about politics(there are two parties: GOOD/generous and EVIL/selfish), brainwashed about marriage and men (they will oppress you; If they do, divorce them and move on), brainwashed about a woman’s most important role: Career woman (The only women who stayed home were too dumb to get a real job). I fully realize that this was only MY personal experience, but it was very real. I HATED school, but I LOVED learning. I think back on so many male high school teachers who were completely inappropriate with young ladies and my skin crawls. I never told my parents or anyone else about their advances. I was mortified. One girl I knew had intercourse with a married (with children) male teacher many times. This was in the midwest. He is now the principal of a large public high school. We didn’t tell any adult. Didn’t think they’d even believe it. This was a highly-respected TEACHER. I couldn’t wait to get out of school. Still, I became a public school teacher. I loved my students and worked long hours to make their school memories and their education much better than mine. Yes, I knew good teachers – very good teachers. Still do. What happened so much though that felt wrong- yet I couldn’t place it at the time – was the fact that I had the hearts of “my” children. Most of my students(as per their parents) were kinder, worked harder, and loved me more than their parents. Then I entered a PhD program and ranted and raved with a doc. student and our adviser over these “crazy homeschoolers” who were hurting their children. I was so completely opposed to all things HOME. This is why I hurt so much for so many who are believing only the best of this untouchable institution called public school. And even if you are convinced it is a good thing, I pray Christian parents will see how they are losing the hearts of their children by allowing their children to absorb a humanist worldview 7 hours each day of the school week. You just can’t compete. I am thankful for solid, Bible-believing private schools, but I will do all I can to homeschool through high school, enjoying some days, enduring others. Public school teaching was much easier than this, though I never laughed this much! My boys crack me up! Thank you, Kelly, for speaking the truth. Remember my story when you write and respond to those opposed to you. I am *forever* grateful today for the people who loved me enough to speak truth into my life so many years ago when I was completely deceived. And I’ll spend the rest of my life giving praise to my Savior, Jesus Christ, who rescued me from the pit of myself. Praying for your safety, Kelly, through the storms. Praying you’ll always press on. Grateful, Claudia 🙂
Claudia,
Thank you so much for sharing your story…so helpful and so enlightening and so encouraging. Amazing.
And thank you for your prayers! After enormous anxiety, we barely got anything in the weather! God is good.
Hi Claudia,
I enjoyed reading your story. I am a former public school teacher turned homeschool mom, too, and there are lots of similarities between your story and mine. Blessings to you as you raise your children. 🙂
Hi 6 Arrows~
So funny that you would reply to my comment, as I have been wanting to get to the computer for a couple of days to reply to one of your comments. I have been ruminating on “I don’t think experience trumps Scripture,” and everything you said after that. I so agree. Also really appreciated your story about your daughter’s experience at the university level. As an instructor in a teacher education program, I was compelled to search for the Truth in part because of the way some of the students in my class introduced each other. I was modeling a strategy for them to use in their own classrooms. Each person had to introduce a student after learning all they could about that person. Several students spoke about Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and Friend. Clearly, it was the Lord seeking my heart, but I am so grateful these young college students of mine were willing to be used, and not ashamed of the Gospel. One of those students is now a dear friend. 🙂
Hello again, Claudia 🙂
Thank you for your kind words! I sometimes ruminate on what I’ve written, too, and usually end up thinking, “Why did I write that? Argh — I’m never going to write anything again!” :-p But I always do, and the cycle repeats…I’m a glutton for punishment! 😉
But anyway…thank you for your words of positive affirmation 🙂
I loved your story about your college students speaking of Jesus. What a blessing!
Your having been an instructor in a teacher education program brought back good memories of the first teacher ed course I took in college, one of my favorite classes I ever had. The instructor was an affable gentleman, nearing retirement age, who possessed a great sense of humor. (For example, he once told a colleague of his in the ed department, “When I die, you’ll be the ugliest man alive.”) LOL! 😀
I remember that this professor would routinely ask a few random people on Mondays whether they had gone to church the day before. I don’t recall how he responded if anyone said no (he may have asked why not, or he might have just moved on to someone else, or maybe most of us went to church), but if a person said yes, often he would then ask what the sermon was about. There would be the occasional hemming and hawing and sheepish smile from a student caught off-guard. He’d let them squirm a little while, always with a smile on his face and a twinkle in his eye, then, if the student’s response was “I don’t remember,” or some such, he’d say, “It was about sin.” 😉 (If only that were true of all churches these days, preaching on sin and showing us our Savior, instead of a feel-good god who’s all love and no justice — but I digress.)
I loved that class and how the professor weaved opportunities to discuss things like that into his public university course for students preparing to teach in the public schools. That was back in the early 80’s — the ACLU would probably have the head of someone who asked questions like that of his students these days in a public university.
I’m so grateful now for the opportunity to speak Truth into the lives of my children as I homeschool them. Wishing you God’s blessings, too, Claudia, as you homeschool your children!
6 Arrows,
So nice to chat online with a kindred spirit. Makes sense, as we both love Kelly’s blog:) Blessings to you, too!
Our families are moving towards secularism. Soon we will just send all our kids to boarding schools where the government will teach them all the same morals and values.
Kelly, you are exactly right. You are right. I’m so grateful for your wisdom and your willingness to share TRUTH.
~kirsten
Opting out of public school would be an individual household decision only – not open to debate such as what is going on here – if it were not paid for with my taxes.
I have heard a Mom get up at a goals 2000 meeting and tearfully confess that she has to let her children go; “They belong to society”. The meeting leaders agreed.
That being said the new Alabama law may make the failing school districts the most free education zones in America. Title 16 chapter 46 allows any group of parents wanting to improve the educational environment for their children to form a private school that is exempt from most regulations, particularly the requirement for establishing a bond to insure tuition. The new accountability act allows vouchers to go to any non-public school, this should include exempted private schools that any group of parents would start.
The variety of opinions have free expression and funding in a few spots in AL. Unfortunately the AL Dept of Ed. website does not have a list of failing schools yet. It is floating around out there somewhere in limbo.
Here are the links to the AL code describing exempt private schools http://law.onecle.com/alabama/education/16-46-3.html (read paragraph 4)
and a copy of the new law:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/127938428/The-Alabama-Accountability-Act
I love how some of these posts cause so much debate and accusation but the Easter post about the Cross barely elicited a peep.
Annie–I find that quite intriguing as well.
You can’t argue with the cross. 🙂