(Y’all, I try so hard to be brief…there’s just so much to say!)
I do NOT want this to turn into a Mommy War 😉 I want to be sensitive to choices regarding this controversial subject, and yet, in keeping with my favorite thing to do, prompt you to THINK. That’s all. We have been taught not to question the status quo (that’s public school’s fault 😉 But shouldn’t we know why we do a thing, and not just take someone else’s word for it?
We stopped vaccinating our children after the third child. Can’t really remember what brought it up…maybe someone mentioned the “danger” and I thought, “danger?…I thought vaccinations were good for children?” And thus began a deep search into the abyss of the vaccination debate.
I found some shocking things, and we decided we were done. More often than not, “preventative” medication may or may not do what it is supposed to do, but hardly ever gives little consideration to lasting or latent consequences.
I learned that vaccinations contain lots of harmful substances and there are plenty of studies to suggest many adult diseases–bad ones–may be related to childhood vaccinations. They have also been linked to autism and sometimes death in infants.
Often, we are convinced to vaccinate for non-life-threatening diseases…sicknesses that are fairly normal and heal themselves (the flu, for example), without introducing our bodies to excessive and harmful substances.
Then there are theories about breaking down our natural, God-given immune system because of the drug “shock” to infants that can cause abnormal cell growth.
And, of course, many of the childhood diseases once considered epidemic no longer even exist, but we’re still vaccinating for them.
Hepatitis B, given to an infant in the hospital, is my biggest peeve. Hep B is a sexually transmitted/drug use disease.
And once prompted to suspicion, I found all sorts of other theories about the dangers of immunizations that I won’t go into, but are well worth studying.
Once you start looking a little more closely to the possible over-drugging of America, you find all sorts of interesting ironies.
For example, as we prepare for a natural birth with this baby, I looked into the Vitamin K shot they give at birth. Briefly, it is given to prevent a rare blood-clotting disorder that occurs in 5 in 100,000 babies. Doctors do NOT tell you that the large dose given at one time increases the baby’s chance of developing leukemia!
Interestingly, there are two, much safer alternatives than sticking the baby as soon as he is born and placing him at this other risk. The cord is generally pre-maturely cut as soon as the baby is born. There are several negative effects and one happens to be that it deprives the baby of 40% of their natural blood volume, which contains blood-clotting factors!
If we left the cord alone, there would be no need for the Vitamin K shot. (You would think they taught doctors this! Or maybe they do, but again, we’re a culture built around speed and convenience.)
Secondly, breast milk from a mom supplementing with vitamin K will remove the risk as well. Simple.
EVEN SINCE I STARTED THIS POST THIS MORNING…I have discovered that I have fallen prey to the “unthinking propaganda” among the masses. I have taken synthetic hormones for my under active thyroid for 18 years. I read today that not only do these hormones cause all kinds of early cancers, but that there is a NATURAL replacement! AND, there are lots of nutritional ways to increase thyroid production IF you start before the thyroid is too damaged.
No doctor has ever told me anything except…”You have to take this pill to stay alive”.
Back to childhood immunizations…
It is becoming increasingly difficult to refuse these. Thankfully, the homeschool community doesn’t receive as much pressure. I fear that very soon, it will be compulsory.
And for some, the risks of developing some of the diseases for which children are vaccinated outweigh the other risks. Still I maintain, if you’re going to do a thing, at least do it with your eyes wide open, knowing why you do it, or why you don’t.
For more reading on this subject, here is a site with a huge lists of links…I have not visited many of these, so you’re on your own! To Vaccinate or Not to Vaccinate
Your thoughts?
71 comments
There are more than just health concerns regarding the vaccines. There are major ethical quetions to raise as well.
Most people don’t know that a lot of common vaccines are made with the blood cells of aborted babies.
You can get a chart listing what vaccines have them and if any ethical alternatives exist by visiting here: http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2007/08/post_40.html
I never knew until recently that there was any danger with vaccines. I have been doing some research of my own lately because of the controversy surronding them. My daughter developed asthma this past year right before her
7th birthday. She has never had any respiratory problems before. I can not help but wonder if this is vaccine related.
Luckily, she is not due for another vaccine for a few years which gives us some time to fully research and make an informed decision for the first time.
Just want to add that if you have a boy and believe in circumcising, Vitamin K peaks in the body (for blood clotting) on the EIGHTH DAY!Who do you think planned that one?! 🙂 We had our most recent son’s circ on the 8th day (after his homebirth), and there was very little bleeding at all. Just a tip! BTW, we don’t vaccinate either.
Anon,
We did the same thing with our son after hearing that about the 8th day…blew my mind!
We vaccinated our first 2 children with what the ped.’s schedule said to do. Our son #2 has some strange issues at an realy young age… very angry and abusive attitude. He is very wanting of love and attention…more than a normal child. Loves and craves movement. Was very colicy as a baby. Anyways, we decided that the shots he was given as a baby gave him an autistic type nature. HE is not diagnosed, but our doctor suggests that it could have been from the shots, or that nature may have already been there but the shots made it worse. So we stopped all of his shots at age 4 just incase they may make him worse. Our 3ed has only had some of the vaccines and they have been spread out so not to combine any. Having our kids in the public school system made it seem strange not to vaccinate. I was told they could not go to school if they were not vaccinated…not tiil my son #2 was 4 that I realized all I had to do was check mark the regious box on the record and not have to worry about what the school says.
Mother of Dog,
How’d you get Whooping Cough? Weren’t you vaccinated?????
😉
Of course they aren’t going to offer any information other than “you need this!” Nobody makes money that way!! I am almost certain that’s why not one doctor ever told me I could abort a fertilized egg with those despicable drugs. They can tell you about a possible blood clot, but not the tiny life you might be flushing away. Yeah, makes me mad too.
It took nearly losing my 4th child, AND knowing someone who lost her precious, perfectly healthy daughter at 18 mos. (the day after her “catch up” vaccines) for me to open my eyes and actually think about what I was allowing to be done to my kids. Honestly, I did not even know there was an option to not vaccinate until my 4th was born.
My first 3 were fully vaccinated. My 3rd son had to be rushed back to the ER (screaming, high fever) following his 4 month shots. Our Dr. “suspected” that it had to do with one of the vaccines, but was real vague. He assured us it was safe to continue with the vaccinations. So, like the sheep we were trained to be, we continued to vaccinate.
In the meantime, my friend lost her daughter, but because she did not immediately connect it with the vaccines, neither did I. The official cause of her death was encephalitis sp? Or, swelling of the brain. Of course, none of the Dr.’s who treated her would attribute the death to her vaccines. We all know better….
Then my 4th was born. She had her 4month shots, which were also her first, since I rejected the Hep B shot at her birth due to a strong “gut” feeling, or rather, the Holy Spirit. After about 30 minutes of the most gut wrenching screaming, but not the high pitched scream I was warned about, she became extremely lethargic, would NOT wake up, or eat. We took her to the ER. They monitored her, and also had us file a report with the CDC. She did not eat or respond well for the next 2 days. It was awful.
Since then, 11/2002 none of mine have received any more vaccines. I get a lot of grief from family, well meaning friends, and of course most Dr.’s and Nurses. Most of what I hear is that the “herd” will lose immunity if too many stop getting vaccines.
This is most definetly one topic to approach with eyes wide open! I had never heard about the vaccines being made with the blood cells of aborted babies. I hate to say that I am not at all surprised.
I never felt comfortable giving my first daughter immunizations. Every time she was due for a shot I would be sick with worry over it–wondering should I, shouldn’t I? Finally, when she was around 18 months, I was talking with a friend about the chicken pox vaccine. I mentioned it and my concerns to the doctor when I took her in because she was ill. This was a newish doctor for us, and I didn’t like him–he was very dismissive of my concerns, but did say one good thing: “Oh, you can do some research and decide when you come in next.” In looking for information on that one vaccine, I discovered more useful information than I had before in looking for information on vaccines in general. I came upon this site: http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html
That’s when I discovered that some vaccines–including the chicken pox one–use cells from aborted babies. That was the information I needed. It clenched it. My daughter hasn’t had a shot since, and my younger daughter, who was born last August, hasn’t had any.
At the hospital with my second baby, when the nurse asked if she would be getting the Hep B shot, I told her no, and she said, “Good! I don’t think they ever should this young!” It was nice to hear.
Of course I was vaccinated, Ms. Tribe. 🙂 But the vaccines do not last that long into adulthood, and therefore – whooping cough. I know, that’s great luck on my behalf!
Okay, you’re not talking about aborted babies here. That makes it sound like babies continue to be aborted to produce a vaccine. That ain’t so. You’re talking about a cell line. The cells that are being used are not taken directly from aborted babies. Tissue from the aborted baby was separated into individual cells MANY YEARS AGO and were allowed to divide. These cells were then allowed to further divide many times. So, the cells used to produce the vaccine are not directly from the aborted baby, but derived (many generations removed) from a specific tissue of the aborted baby. It’s a little like refusing an organ donation if the liver came from a murderer. Although using fresh aborted tissues is theoretically possible for mass vaccine production, no apparatus presently exists to gather them in sufficient quantities to make their use economically viable. It really doesn’t have a lot of bearing.
By the way, I’ve read that the original cell line is from a MISCARRIED baby that couldn’t be carried to term. Aborted is a term that was often applied to any baby that did not go full term.
It’s common practice now to blame pretty much every ailment on vaccination. I understand that mothers want the best for their children – that’s an entirely reasonable stance. But I would hate to see the effects of an epidemic outbreak of something that could have been handled with childhood vaccinations. They were developed for good, not evil. They were meant to protect children. Personally, I think you all should pick and choose the important ones – but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. 🙂
In fact, this is from a doctor with the Catholic Medical Association. I actually work with a Catholic system of hospitals, and believe me this comes up:
Vaccine Myth #13: Vaccinations are made from aborted babies
WI’d like to address the fact that some people have questioned whether the use of fetal cells in the production of vaccines is moral and ethical. This question is timely due to a news story just out: Doctors and Families Asked to “Just Say no to New Aborted Fetal Vaccine!”
One of my foundational ethical principles is that human life is sacred from the moment of conception when a new, unique human being is formed. Having said that, let me explain that a line of human cells (known as WI-38) used to grow viruses for research is believed to have begun from the tissue (cells) of a fetus in Sweden.
These cells are used in the production of the rubella portion of the MMR-II vaccine.
Dr. Leonard Hayflick at the Wistar Institute (thus the WI in the name of the cell line) developed the WI-38 cell line in 1962.
A second cell line, MRC-5, has been used to develop the vaccines called Vaqta and Havrix (administered to prevent hepatitis A). It’s also used in a newly licensed vaccine, Pentacel, made by Sanofi Pasteur (Pentacel is a combination vaccine of Diptheria, Pertussis, Tetanus (DTaP) plus HiB and Polio.).
In addition, the Varivax vaccine for the chicken pox virus has been produced from both the MRC-5 and WI-38 lines.
As for the origins of MRC-5, the Physicians Resource Council of Focus on the Family has found that this particular cell line was developed from the cells of a preborn infant who was aborted by the mother for “psychiatric reasons,” although specific details haven’t been revealed.
For references on the issue of tissue cultures being derived from an aborted fetus, see the note on page 321 of my book God’s Design for the Highly Healthy Child.
Although I abhor the practice of abortion, using these cell lines to continue to develop vaccines does not necessarily constitute formal cooperation in the act of abortion.
Killing an unborn child is an ethically distinct act from that of producing a vaccine after the abortion has already been performed.
Furthermore, no ongoing abortions are required to continue production of these vaccines. Cell lines derived from fetal tissue can be duplicated and grown in culture for decades, and thus additional abortions aren’t necessary to replenish the vaccine supply.
For these reasons, I join the vast majority of faith-based medical ethicists who don’t believe that producing or administering a vaccine made in the past from the cells of an aborted fetus is an evil act.
Beyond the shadow of a doubt, moral people should speak out against unethical and immoral practices. I would never justify conducting an immoral practice so that something positive can result.
However, in this case I can recommend these vaccines to concerned parents who have an obligation to care for their children’s health.
I think of this situation as being comparable to letting your child receive an organ from a murder victim. The crime that led to the organ’s availability was awful, deplorable, and punishable. But the organ itself is useable, and its use does not, in my opinion, take on any immorality of the act that led to its availability.
Nevertheless, I completely support individual conscience. Due to the complex and highly controversial nature of this issue, it’s understandable that some parents will still feel uncomfortable utilizing vaccines that are the byproduct of abortion.
In the case of Pentacel, a pro-life group, Children of God for Life, points out, “If a 5 in 1 vaccine is desired, why not recommend the ethical version Pediarix, made by Glaxo SmithKline?”
They go on to say, “The only difference between the two is that Pediarix protects against Hepatitis-B instead of HiB. Doctors using Pediarix today give separate shots for HiB. With Pentacel they will still have to give separate shots for Hepatitis-B so its not like Pentacel is reducing the number of injections.”
In May 2006, the Catholic Medical Association issued a formal statement noting that, “When alternative vaccines are available, they must be used in place of those produced by immoral means.” Likewise, the Christian Medical and Dental Association have repeatedly called on the industry to stop using aborted fetal cell lines in vaccine production.
Although I am comfortable with parents who choose this alternative for their children, I also believe it’s ethical for parents to choose the new vaccine – or vaccines made with the WI-38 cell line.
Hey…one of my favorite subjects. I’ve written a bit about it on my blog 🙂 It even has its own tag!
🙂
Christian/Catholic medical/dental associations are not church authority, they are professional organizations. While they can make recommendations, they cannot definitely say whether or not a particular practice is right or wrong.
The Vatican has said that if a child’s health is at risk parents may use a vaccine of illicit origin. However, everyone has the duty to make their disagreement known and to insist on alternative vaccines. (2006 Vatican document: Dignitas Personae)
And it is true (as has been pointed out) that vaccines do not create immunity for life (which is why I don’t use the word “immunization”). So, what we are basically doing is taking childhood illnesses and pushing them into the adult population where they could potentially be more dangerous.
I’m simply furnishing a church based opinion, Ms. Tribe. I don’t expect he is the authority – I’m just sharing how he reached a decision. 😉
“So, what we are basically doing is taking childhood illnesses and pushing them into the adult population where they could potentially be more dangerous.”
What? That’s one I’ve never heard before. Where’s the scientific evidence for that? I’ll leave you with this: This past year the United States witnessed a measles epidemic that was the largest in more than a decade. About 135 people, mostly children, were infected with measles; some of those children were hospitalized with severe dehydration and others with pneumonia caused by the virus. Why did this happen? The answer is in a study published in December 2008 in the American Journal of Epidemiology. The authors, epidemiologists from Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, examined school children in Michigan whose parents had chosen not to vaccinate them. They compared clusters of unvaccinated children with clusters of documented whooping cough (pertussis) outbreaks. Not surprisingly, the clusters overlapped. The authors concluded: “Geographic pockets of vaccine exemptors pose a risk to the whole community…”
That’s the danger.
Oh and by the way – most of you have been vaccinated with more than your children! I take it you aren’t all suffering from mystery ailments? The current shots against 14 diseases contain 153 proteins. According to scientists, babies cope with thousands of new foreign proteins daily in food, dirt and animal hair. And check this out: the smallpox vaccine that nearly every American over age 30 got as a child contained 200 proteins. 200!
I’m sorry, I work in healthcare and it pains me to see misinformation spread. The result is going to be a terrible epidemic. Western medicine is not evil and it isn’t a democratic conspiracy.
But if you choose not to innoculate, please keep those little germ-carriers away from me! 😉
So those unvaccinated children got whooping cough? Is that what the study concluded?
Nevermind, I found the article. More blog fodder perhaps…ridiculousness abounds 🙂
“So, what we are basically doing is taking childhood illnesses and pushing them into the adult population where they could potentially be more dangerous.”
Here’s a scholarly reviewed article backing that theory up…
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/315863
I wish this vaccination thing was easier to wade through! So much CONFLICTING information out there.
I am glad that someone brought up circumcision. In my mind, that’s another area that people ought to go into eyes wide open. We have a daughter, so haven’t had to face circumcision yet, but are hoping for a son someday.
We chose not to find out the sex of our baby before she was born, and was pleasantly surprised with a baby girl, but I had hoped that if we had a son we could wait on circumcision (if we chose to do it) until the 8th day. If we are going to do something for Biblical reasons, we wanted to do it the way the Bible says to do it!
I’m glad to hear at least one commenter saying they were able to postpone the circ until the 8th day.
There’s quite a bit of controversy out there about even circumsizing at all, if you look. Would love to see a post on that topic, someday, especially from a Biblical perspective.
I’d love to hear about the natural thyroid treatment. I take medication for it as well and would truly love to find another way!
could you please tell me what you’re doing for your thyroid. I too have been on thyroid meds for 20 years and have had tons of pregnancy issues….I’m interested in what you are doing.
Thanks,
Alissa
I used to write a lot about this, but for the safely of my family discontinued. My oldest is severely autistic due to baby vaccs. I am sure *when* they mandate vaccs all my children will be affected severely, & some may not survive. I feel no need to bring more children into this world for this being one of the reasons; they are too much at risk. Since it runs down the family their children will be at risk. BTW, the "stimulus" bill is giving over 900 million for new vaccs. And powers are working on outlawing many vitamins; this is the very thing keeping my children above water & they want to take it away. This is beyond horrible. I've felt a serious loss of hope for the future of my family, as well as many others like us.
Kelly, you’re coming out against vaccination but you cirumcize (I’m looking at your comment here)? I didn’t know that you’re Jewish.
I have read a lot about vaccinations, from both camps. We give only one at a time, which is some safeguard for the immune system, and for one child didn’t start until 2 or 3. But living in an apt complex with recent arrivals from south and east asia, africa, and the carribean, was enough to convince me to vax my kiddos. Things like Hep A and Polio are still around (happily we humans are on the verge of irradicating P), and are blood and stool-borne, and often transferred in FOOD by an infected someone with poorly washed hands. Nice. Not arguing with anyone here (I stopped reading the comments after yours), just adding some info that I think is helpful.
You’re right about the possibility of vax’ing becoming mandatory. Maybe not by law, but by duress. Thanks to some new healthcare guidlines slipped in the backdoor of a recent stimulous bill.
“[B]ureaucrats at Health and Human Services will electronically collect every citizen’s complete medical records and determine appropriate medical care…
HHS bureaucrats will soon be empowered to overrule your doctor. Doctors who don’t comply with the government’s treatment protocols will be fined. That’s right: Instead of your treatment being determined by your doctor, it will be settled on by some narcoleptic half-wit in Washington who couldn’t get a job in the private sector.
And a brand-new set of bureaucrats in the newly created office of “National Coordinator of Health Information Technology” will be empowered to cut off treatments that merely prolong life. Sorry, Mom and Pop, Big Brother said it’s time to go.”
Ann Coulterhttp://townhall.com/columnists/AnnCoulter/2009/02/11/goodbye,_america!_it_was_fun_while_it_lasted?page=2
MOD,
What Daja said…
“So, what we are basically doing is taking childhood illnesses and pushing them into the adult population where they could potentially be more dangerous.”
I’d say you are one piece of that scientific proof (whooping cough as an adult, despite your vaccination.) A doctor will gladly tell you many of the vaccines must have boosters to be effective–they only last a few years and then the adult-contracted version is MUCH worse than the childhood ailment (chicken pox, for example.) Very few continue to get boosters.
I realize you believe this is all “misinformation”, but I’m curious how much study you’ve truly done into the other side of the argument? There is very compelling evidence by DOCTORS and medical professionals (not just us crazy homeschool moms), that the vaccination issues bears highly questionable and dangerous potential. One can’t have her eyes wide open until she’s studied the whole argument.
A word about the ethical issues…they may or may not be used from an “old” aborted fetus. To most pro-lifers, it matters little, because, disagreeing with your quote,any benefit that comes from the abortion industry does, in some way, promote that industry.
For those who asked about alternative thyroid…I’m still researching, but taking Vitamin E, Kelp(iodine) and Selenium seem to be the three major supplements that really help. Here’s a link for the “5 top supplements for thyroid support”.
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/topsupplements.htm
The name of the natural thyroid hormone is “Armour” although it is still a prescription.
Lori,
We don’t circumcise because we are Jewish 🙂 and admittedly, it is another area where we are only beginning to look into (you can only be so drastic at a time 😉
I have always believed the truth about “health benefits” although they seem to be much more undocumented than I previously thought.
So, this is an area my husband and I are discussing and will be considering much more seriously if we have a boy 😉
On a side note, I guess this issue hasn’t bothered me as much as injecting poisons in the body, because now that they deaden the area it doesn’t seem to be as intrusive as it once was.
Still, there seems to be little reason to do it!
I am pregnant with baby #5 and I have been on bedrest since December 20th for partial abruption of the placenta. God has healed me and my baby and it stabilized!! A friend introduced me to your blog and it has been so encouraging since we have received criticism for having another baby and don’t have maternity coverage. I too am considering a drug free birth for the first time(given that epidurals cost over $1000!).
God is also leading my husband and I to bring our boys home to homeschool them next year. So I wanted to let you know how encouraging your posts are—please keep going!!
By the way, I agree with your thoughts on vaccination. I’ve seen too many friends dealing with some form of autism- you can’t help but believe it is related to these vaccinations.
It’s important to remember that we are blessed to live in an era and nation where this is even a debatable issue–where it isn’t the norm to lose one or more of our children to disease and to have some with permanent side effects.
That said, I certainly believe America is “overdrugged,” and that there are many harmful side effects from the vaccinations and other medications themselves. But there was once a time when the side effects were worse, yet compared to the diseases themselves, parents would gladly take the risk.
My 13 month old daughter has only received 1 vaccination (we were in the midst of a homebirth, but had to emergency transfer to the hospital, where the vaccination was required.) However, our family will be ministering overseas in a third world country. At that time, we will all get vaccinated for some serious diseases. I have been there before, been sick, and know many children who have died.
So, it’s sometimes helpful to remember perspective.
Can I just say that at no point did I ever refer to anyone as “crazy homeschool mom?” Lol! I realize there are those that disagree – that’s fine. I’m just pointing out that vaccination has some noble origins, and are for the most part found to be extremely safe. They have protected health for generations. I would never tell anyone with children not to be cautious, but there is misinformation floating around out there. I would advise people to get the facts, and not just from religious sources. Nough said.
I literally put off those repeated infant Dr.’s visits the first year for as long as possible. What I mean is I would space them further apart so all those vacs would be spaced out. Everytime there was an appointment coming up, I had a knot twisting in my stomach.
Once, I approached the non-vacsinating issue with the Dr. and she has hearing none of it. I did manage to refuse the nurse and the flu vac.
As a result, I do not take my children to the Dr unless necessary. Thankfully we are a healthy family. I don’t think we will be following up with the booster shots and such.
Brandi
I’ve been on Armour Thyroid for about 8 years now but still having some issues…just wondered if you were doing anything else besides. Thanks for the website….
I am very blessed to have a family doctor that doesn’t give me a hard time about not vaccinating.
The fact of the matter is that most of these diseases were on the decline before mandatory vaccination simply because as a whole we were becoming more sanitary.
We stopped circumcising our boys because of the lack of convincing evidence that it actually prevents UTI’s. Also because there are a ton of horror stories out there and there is no pain relief provided. (In fact, the one we did, reattached and I watched in horror as the pediatrician just ripped it off!)
We also felt that it was excused in Romans were it explains that circumcision is to be a picture of what we are to do with our hearts. And ceremonially could be replaced with infant baptism. So we left them the way they were created. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for being bold enough to give such a controversial topic as vaccines attention.
I’m not going to jump into the vaccination debate here, but I did want to mention a book that I love love love that dispells many of the myths surrounding medical care for children. It’s called “How to raise a Healthy Child in Spite of your Doctor” by Dr. Robert Mendelsohn (a pediatrician). It’s a wonderful book. I actually have an extra copy if anyone would like it. Just leave a comment on my blog (www.intostillwaters.com)
We also discovered what is actually in all those “good” vaccines before our second child was born. I think that vaccines also give a false safe feeling. When you do see a breakout of these diseases, it is mostly vaccinated people getting them. Then the one or two non-vaccinated people are singled out and attacked. What about the majority who were vaccinated that got the disease anyway? I think that false sense of security is dangerous.
hmm – I had a sneaking suspicion you were a fellow non-vaxer! : ) Glad you found the truth!
Well it looks like there was a war even if it wasn’t desired….
I wanted to thank you for passing the link along. I have been studying this issue myself and after his first round of shots decided to hold off on vaccines for my newest little one who is now 7 months old.
My concern is for baby girls who have not been vaccinated for Rubella as it is absolutely devastating during pregnancy should the mother be exposed to rubella. Perhaps adult immunization would be an option.
Thanks again for putting this out there for us!
Annette
Annette,
My chiropractor was immunized for rubella as a child and during routine testing at the OB it was discovered that she wasn’t immune so they offered to re-do it. (She too is anti-vaccine so I’m not sure if she took it.)
I do vaccinate, but only one or tow at a time. The newer vaccinations, like for meningitis, chicken pox, and HPV…I wait to see what arises as far as the first batch of people who got them.
I like what Keren said, I do believe it is a decision that needs to be made carefully, and there probalby are some evolutions that have occured to make disease not so widespread…..sanitary changes, etc. I think as time goes on, newer ways to keep us healthy will be discovered, and today more and more people are seeking healthy alternatives. Me, included.
That being said, there is a part of me that thinks those who are not vaccinated, can remain healthy because 95% of people DO get vaccinated. If we were living in a time where vaccinations for bubonic plague were made available, and you yourself saw firsthandedly what bubonic plague did to people….I for one would be RUNNING to get my children the vaccination.
Perhaps our being willing to research the sometiems possible ills on vaccinations, is that we are living in a different era. We look deeper, simply becasue we can AFFORD to do so, as there is no real looming threat out there today. I have no problem with that. But to say the whole reason vaccinations were made is a bunch of baloney…I could never go that far. Many people lost children quite easily hundreds of years ago, even just a bit over a century ago. People died much younger.
I wonder if none of us got vaccinated….what would come of that……
AM.
There is much truth in what you say. My thinking runs along the lines of, “which is the greater risk?” And because these diseases are so rare, it seems the greater risk are all the other ailments associated with vaccinations.
And some just seem pointless…like the chicken pox. Unless a booster is administered every 4 years or so FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, you risk a much graver illness in adulthood–Shingles. Whereas chicken pox itself is a basically harmless illness. Just let it be.
I always tend to lean toward a more natural approach to health too, because I think God did a fabulous job in building our bodies and our immunities.
I do appreciate the medical community and am thankful for the really needed advancements. I just want to be careful that we are not cheating ourselves with all the convenience and/or pressure when it’s not necessary.
This excerpt sums up an important point that is often overlooked…
“On the other side of the arguement, opponents of vaccination point to statistics which show that virtually all reduction in fatalities from infectious disease occured before widespread vaccines were introduced for those illnesses, and that the same reductions in disease incidence also took place in countries where there were no widespread vaccination programs of any kind, and also took place in the same time period for diseases that never had vaccines introduced! Instead of vaccines reducing death and disease incidence, they point to revolutions in nutrition, sanitation and hygeine that were implemented at that time as being far more instrumental in the reduction of infectious disease…
During all this time of our history, if we did not have the basic ability to defend ourselves against simple infections,our species could not have survived. The serious epidemics and infectious illnesses which prompted the move to develope vaccinations were caused by poor sanition and nutrition, in other words, by living in un-natural manners. It was a return to clean natural living and hygiene which were the most significant factors for the erradication of these illnesses and not the introduction of un-natural vaccines….
Most epidemic-level outbreaks of the various diseases our society is vaccinating against are taking place among fully-vaccinated children. Even in the short-term, where vaccinations have been effective at reducing disease incidence, the immune effects are not universal and more and more children are getting sick anyway. In other words, children are being exposed to the risks of vaccination without the benefits of either short-term or long-term immunity. In roughly the last 30 years, for example, every case polio in the U.S. has been among previously vaccinated individuals.
Third, the risks of side effects from vaccinations now appear to be higher than the risks of serious side effects from the naturally acquired childhood diseases.”
From http://www.southbaytotalhealth.com/Vaccinations.htm
Totally not to pick a fight, but “Hep B is a sexually transmitted/drug use disease” is a big myth that is being circulated widely in the non-vac movement. Several of my friends who are nurses point out that Hep B is more of a concern for infants in our country than AIDS and they have treated (and seen die) many infants from the disease, which CAN be caught without having sex or using drugs.
We chose to vaccinate after much extensive research. One reason for this is that so many people in our area are NOT vaccinating. Does that sound ironic? Well, the fact is, in our area, we are seeing mumps outbreaks, polio outbreaks, yes even Hep B outbreaks–when fewer kids are getting vaccinated in the area, there is a higher chance that your non-vax kid is going to get what’s out there. In areas where vaccination is more highly practiced, perhaps this is not as much of a concern, but it certainly is in the individualistic, counter-cultural Pacific Northwest 🙂
That said, we did reject the rotovirus vaccine (which our dr. incidentally does not give to her patients even if they REQUEST it because she thinks it has not been adequately tested; it hasn’t!) and we will not be getting the varicella vaccine for our daughter (chicken pox in youth is much safer than in adulthood, and the effects can wear off over time).
So, that was our educated decision. I’m glad you found one that works for your family. But, I did want to point out that misconception about Hep B, as I think that having accurate information is very important on that score.
~Bethany
MOD, Karen, AM and Bethany – thank you for intelligent words of moderation. This is a divisive subject, and I thought you gave very helpful info instead of the propaganda that tends to come from the pro-vax camp. Wish I had come across your ideas several years ago. Would’ve saved me a lot of worry.
(I am not suggesting anything here “between the lines”. I mean only what I say, and I am only speaking regarding the comments of those posters I listed)
Here is something else I learned when my son went in for his 5yr. check up. He was supposed to get the 2nd MMR Vaccine. Ofcourse we already had decided no on it….But we found out that the 2nd MMR is most of the time not needed. A child is usually immune with the 1st one, but most doctors decide to do another just to make sure. We had a immunity test done on Andrew and the first dose he had as a baby made him fully immune. So your child may already be immune to MMR from the first dose, but you are giving them another vaccine that could potentially cause Autism when they probably don’t need it. SAD:(
Bethany,
From the CDC on Hep B Vac:
“Transmission: Contact with infectious blood, semen, and other body fluids from having sex with an infected person, sharing contaminated needles to inject drugs, or from an infected mother to her newborn.”
I hate to be contradictory but, in the last decade (since the switch from OPV to IPV) there haven’t been any cases of polio in the U.S. Before that, most cases were from people who received the vaccine which was live. So you were injected with polio to prevent polio.
http://www.post-polio.org/ir-usa.html
Polio outbreak in MN: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101301733.html
Though, you’re right, I was mistaken about the polio outbreak near us. Here are outbreaks that HAVE occurred in my area.
Whooping Cough:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/13534237.html
Measles:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5733a1.htm
Mumps:
http://www.health.state.ri.us/disease/communicable/mumps-han.php
On Hep B:
“It has been estimated that as many as one-third of Americans with chronic hepatitis B infection were infected as infants or young children. With risks like these, clearly hepatitis B is a serious problem for our nation’s children. This is why all infants should be vaccinated with hepatitis B vaccine before they leave the hospital. For most people, hepatitis B infection is a minor problem. For infants, it is often a life-long complication.”
http://hepatitis.about.com/b/2008/04/25/protect-your-baby-from-hepatitis-b.htm
Back to my comment about rubella concerns….
Back in 1991, after graduating from nursing school and securing a position at a local hospital, I was required to be tested for immunity to certain diseases. It was determined that I needed a MMR vaccine. I got the shot so I could fulfill the requirements for employment. A day or so after receiving the immunization I broke out in very large welts or hives; called the ER and got put on hold a lot….then asked if I had an egg-white allery…(I do not). They couldn’t tell me anything. I took Benadryl; it cleared up until the anti-histamine wore off a couple of hours later. This went on for 2 weeks or more. I felt rather self-conscious at my job as a new nurse, because I felt all the doctors were looking at me as if I were diseased with these hives all over my arms.
Reports indicated many MMRs administed in the early 1970’s had been determined ineffective, temporarily causing an increased demand for adult boosters.
I realized that was an individual reaction, but there is so much controversy over vaccines that I do not feel comfortable immunizing my children at this time. I have researched quite a bit and am appalled by all the negative and controversial information. There are a lot of reasons NOT to vaccinate out there.
I am also very concerned about the gov’t using vaccines with ulterior motives to fulfill its own agenda. Did you ever consider the idea that they could insert microchips into your newborn via an injection without ever informing you of it? Don’t think it won’t happen. It probably will, and chances are they aren’t going to educate the public on that one. I am not one to say that everything is a conspiracy. Just be careful about trusting the government. They have no business regulating the medical industry.
Hey, I got whooping cough, too! =D Even though I was vaccinated against it as a child, I somehow contracted pertussis as a homeschooled teenager (they say the vac only lasts 13 or 14 years; I was 13 1/2).
Needless to say, I don’t think much of vacs. 😉 Baby hasn’t had any, yet. If he gets vacs, it will be after 2yo., when his system is more mature. Our doc has been very nice and not pushy on this subject.
On circumcision: We had it done to our son. He had the vit K shot, too. I wanted to wait 8 days, but we didn’t really want to go back to the hospital, so just got it done.
It wasn’t for ‘religious’ reasons. We believe that God did away with that. But, we also believe that there had to be some good reason He required that of His people to begin with. (Like waiting ’til the 8th day thing.)
Just my thoughts. =)
Bethany,
Thank you for the references–this is very helpful, and just the kind of discussion I was hoping to have.
This quote from the related article you quoted from (same author):
“The most common ways that hepatitis B virus spreads is through sexual or extremely familiar contact with someone infected, sharing needles and syringes with someone infected, and the birthing process from an infected mother to the child. In fact, this last type of spread, called perinatal transmission, was so common that public health officials began recommending routine childhood hepatitis B vaccination. Some sources say that as many as one-third of Americans with chronic hepatitis B infection were infected as infants or young children.”
We can’t argue that babies contract Hep B during delivery (or at least I don’t know enough to).
But this validates one of my points: WHY DON’T THEY TEST THE MOTHER, and only give the vaccine to those babies whose mothers are infected? It’s this, “Oh a few babies get infected so let’s just shoot them all up” that bothers me 😉
I’m not opposed to using medicine/prevention where needed, but we take a good thing and abuse it, IMO.
I am passionate about avoiding hospital protocols…when our homebirth plans failed this past birth, we ended up in the hospitals, and one reason my hubby HATES the hospital is having to fend off all this stuff. Like PKU and vit. K. We compromised with them some so we could go home early. They gave us a hard time about the vit. K.
But I do think it’s unnecessary.
We have selectively vaccinated the last 2. The last one we didn’t get vaccinated at all…yet.
Ahh..America. The land of Freedom. The “Freedom of Choice” country.
We can choose, for ourselves, if we want to have children or not. We can choose to have our unborn children killed, we’d like (think abortion). Yet, our “choice” of how we raise (religious beliefs), school, what they listen to on the radio (think Fairness Doctrine) and medically treat our children – you know, the children we CHOSE to have, that “choice” is now being threatened. Boy, I tell you, I can’t wait until the day when they (the government and all other associated parties) tell me howto dress my children in, because I tell ya, thinking for myself is tough! Hey, maybe they could tell me what to name my kids too!
Are we a country with the Freedom of Choice, or are we a country with the Freedom of Communism?
Also, for those of you who are vaccinated, and your children are vaccinated-why are you so afraid? Aren’t you “covered”? Aren’t you “protected”, since that is what vaccinations are for – right? If you’re not covered or protected, then what was the point of getting them anyway?
Heather
Kelly,
I just wanted to respond to your comment about the chicken pox. After a person has chicken pox, the virus remains dormant in their nervous system for the rest of their lives. Shingles is the reactivation of that same virus, only it is more localized and usually more severe, with much longer lasting symptoms. It’s triggered by stress or a lowered immune system. If a person has never had chicken pox, they cannot get shingles. They would just get chicken pox (which is usually much worse for adults). My 33 year old husband had a shingles outbreak in December, which we think was triggered by extreme stress at his job. We were shocked, thinking it was just an “old person” disease. The doctor told us that is no longer true, they’re even seeing middle-schoolers with shingles these days. My husband was put on Valtrex and fortunately had a much less severe case than some people (although his was on his face and eyelid, causing worry for his vision if the blisters spread into his eye). He still has recurring headaches from it sometimes.
I really had a hard time accepting giving the chicken pox vaccination to my kids, but since our pediatrician’s office won’t see patients that don’t keep up with their immunization schedule, I finally caved in.
Now I don’t know what’s worse. You have chicken pox as a child, you risk shingles as an adult. You don’t have chicken pox as a child, you risk having a worse case as an adult.
So no, chicken pox in and of itself usually isn’t too terrible of a childhood disease, but it still has potential long term ramifications.
thanks for sharing your thoughts…it is definitely good to be informed!
My dh was always in awe of my younger two sibs that hadn’t been vacinated – how down-right healthy they are.
I always assumed we’d circ any boys we had. My dh is like, “I’m German!” What *that* had to do with anything … and then I started looking into it Biblically and realized it wasn’t a commandment – I was shocked, to say the least!
Then I pondered health reasons. I do sometimes still wonder, BUT surely God didn’t leave the majority of men to suffer disease and other issues? *sigh* I wish the issue was more clear. Adam wasn’t circ’d, right? And he was okay?
I have really thought about this from all angles b/c I was so certain that the only ones who didn’t circ their little boys were ignorant, dirty people! *blushing in shame*
We don’t vax. My niece had a bad reaction and it still effects her today, and my brother had a gran mal seizure the afternoon after a MMR. So … I feel like we have warning from both sides of the family not to vax.
My dh has done some research on it, and how often do you worry about Scarlett Fever? Yep, SF did the same rapid decline – sans vaccine – that everything else was WITH a vaccine. What changed? Sanitation!
I find it both sad and ironically amusing that bad in the day, doctors spread disease because they didn’t wash their hands. I read in Reader’s Digest a huge article about how to not be afraid to ask your doctor to please wash his hands in front of you. Funny, goes around comes around.
There is really nothing new under the sun.
Ashley
http://www.homesteadblogger.com/Jonash2004
I’m very fortunate to have a doctor that works with me for vaccinating. I had my oldest start at 2 1/2 years old and my Dr. researched the vacs. and found that as children get older they require fewer vacs. He’s also ok with just getting one shot at a time and really spreading them out. My almost 7 yo will get his last shot in a few months and my 4yo is about 1/4 of the way done. I just never felt comfortable putting so much in a tiny baby at one time and my husband was ok going with the Drs. schedule.
I’d just like to add that I have read reports of teens who were not vaccinated as children contracting diseases that have been eliminated here in the States while on overseas missions trips. Something to consider before an overseas trip.
Annette- You said: “I am also very concerned about the gov’t using vaccines with ulterior motives to fulfill its own agenda.” I think this is the key issue. We cannot swallow wholesale what either the government or private agencies tell us on healthcare, nutrition…well, pretty much anything. So much of it is tied up in economics and politics that we often have to dig very deep to come to knowledgable conclusions. Sometimes I feel adrift in the sea of discourse and choices, but at least I can find access to alternative resources to help me in my search.
Kelly- I do agree with you about the Hep B being administered without consideration. I think it would be important not only for infants of infect mothers but also for those who live in families where promiscuity and intrevenous drug-use are being practiced. (Not something we like to think about with little babies, but let’s be honest, there are lots of parents/uncles/teenage sibs out there who are doing these things. If the baby or young child comes in contact with the blood of one of those family members, he or she could contract Hep B.) I think this time around, since I won’t be in a hospital anyway, we will not get the Vitamin K shot or Hep B vaccine. Incidentally, we are also not going to circumcise this baby. We thought about it and then said, why would we set up an appointment to go into a hospital to give our son an unnecessary surgery? I mean, we won’t be in the hospital, so we would have to really go out of our way to have him circumcised. I have no vendetta against circumcision, but I just don’t think it’s necessary.
It’s not that I think everyone should vaccinate, but with the drop in vaccination rates in my area and not knowing what the fallout of that will be yet, I do want to vaccinate against the life-threatening and disabling illnesses that are out there.
~Bethany
To vaccinate, unfortunately!
We work for an organization that requires we vaccinate ALL of our children to live and work overseas. We’ve had a MOUNTAIN of vaccinations because they pay us to be missionaries in a 3rd world country. It’s a bummer, but that’s how it has to be. So far, everyone has been TOTALLY fine and without complications. If I were living home in the middle of nowhere in America and homeschooling I would go another route for sure.
Jess in Peru
but honestly….I am okay with the whole vaccination thing. I guess that makes me a minority, but I have enough “ditches to die in” if you know what I mean and right now this just can’t be one of them.
Jess in Peru
I really dont know about doctors pushing vax or certain routines they do at birth. Really, I figure these people see the worst of the worst cases….ever since they began studying medicine. Perhaps for reasons unknown to us, it is also a sensitive subject. I doubt they are in the back room gabbing about how they need to push shots or else the govt will cut all their paychecks. Hahahaha……
Oh, and thanks to Lori! 🙂 So my words arent in vain…..lol.
Mother of Dog: Thanks for bringing up so many of the important counter-arguments that sprang to my mind while reading this post! You helped level out my blood pressure ;-).
I am a PhD student studying immunology and infectious diseases. As such, I am thoroughly trained to think for myself and use clear logic based on empirical evidence. I mention this only so it will be understood that I don’t merely lap up whatever information is handed out by “the establishment” (quite the opposite – I’m in life sciences and I do not hide my disbelief in evolution). I understand vaccines on a very detailed and, literally, microscopic level.
They are a GOOD thing. Yes, it is possible (although not at all probable) that a person will have an adverse reaction. Every human is unique. But in a risk/benefit analysis, vaccination easily comes out on the winning side. Furthermore, I am absolutely sure that it is safe to say millions of lives have been saved due to vaccines.
I specifically want to address the comment that vaccination only puts diseases off until adulthood. Pertussis (whooping cough) has been discussed as an example here. In fact, I’ve used adult whooping cough as an example of waning immunology in my departmental seminars. We don’t understand why immunity to B. pertussis goes away, but it is a very unusual phenomenon. The vast majority of vaccines will provide sufficient immunity for life. Just wanted to clarify that.
Just a random thought or two…I WOULD consider some vaccinations if we were leaving the country or living in another country…
SIDS was something I ran across too–that the rates are much higher since vac. became so prevalent.
I have respect for whatever people choose regarding this issue…my ONLY hope is that people are informed, which is why I even brought the topic up. You likely won’t have a doctor even mention the slightest possibility of other potential problems related to vacs, or about risks beyond an elevated fever.
I am most opposed to parents being made to feel like this is mandatory, but given no additional information or choice in the matter.
I think a good compromise for some is the spacing out, selective vacs, and requesting mercury-free ones, if it is a big concern to vaccinate.
I am thankful to all of you who have offered such good information (y’all are a thinking bunch!)…it is precisely what I had hoped for. Study, prayer and informed decisions about our children–that is our responsibility.
Hi Kelly,
I think one thing should be apparent and that is that a parent should be the one to decide if the child will or will not be vaccinated. It is not the government’s role to mandate that decision.
As for our children, we do have serious health issues and vaccination has been a blessing. My daughter got whooping cough before she was 2 months old. By the grace of God, she lived. It was horrible to watch her gasp for air in between those coughs. She would throw up from the force of the coughing. At the time, my 3 year old son, did not get pertussis. I am grateful for the LORD’s protection for both of my children. One lived and the other never got the disease. My son was vaccinated.
A year ago, I got pertussis. It was the worst cough! Praise the LORD, my children who both have moderate to severe asthma, did not get the disease! Again, they did have their booster.
For healthy individuals, I think it is wise to reconsider the pressure to vaccinate. I think caring parents should check out the facts on any medicine they put in any child’s body whether they are healthy or not. However, when we do have a conviction on saying “no” to something like vaccinating, let’s remember that not everyone says “yes” out of fear or blindness. For our family, even the flu vaccine is valuable. No respiratory virus is “just a cold.” It can lead to very difficult breathing which can be life threatening.
Just some thoughts.
Kelly,
I am not sure my opinion on vax. I will probably have to think more seriously about the issue when the Lord blesses us with children. Personally, I lean in favor of vaccination. I also think a lot of hype about vaccines and autism is just that – hype. Kids 50 years ago were probably exposed to way more mercury from broken thermometers and tooth fillings than our kids are today from vax.
As regards circumcision, I am pretty strongly opposed. Why mutilate your child’s genitals for no good reason? I understand if it’s a religious thing, but supposed “health reasons” just aren’t good enough for me to think it’s okay to deprive my son of something God gave him while He was forming him in the womb. Does God make mistakes? Then why would we perform what’s essentially cosmetic surgery on a poor defenseless baby. If, as an adult, my sons want to be vaccinated, they’re free to go for it…but for all the talk about birth trauma that you’ve been doing lately, hopefully you see how having a functional part of his sexual anatomy removed might be slightly traumatic to your son.
As for Armour thyroid, I have heard good things. It is still a prescription, as you noted, but instead of just T4, it also has T1, T2, and T3, or so I’ve heard. The reason I still take Levoxyl instead of Armour is financial. Armour is a “preferred brand” on my insurance, and costs $35/mo compared to $5/mo for generic Levoxyl.
I have heard good things about Selenium (particularly in terms of stopping hair loss), zinc, and iodine for hypothyroidism. However, you’d only take the iodine if you were iodine-deficient. Most Americans aren’t iodine deficient due to iodized salt, and if you have too much iodine in your system, that can actually promote hypothyroidism. By far, the primary cause of hypothyroidism in the developing world is iodine deficiency, but in the United States, the primary cause is autoimmune.
I would not advise experimenting with thyroid meds or supplements while you’re pregnant…just too risky, especially in the second trimester. But after you have the baby, go for it! Just remember to have your TSH tested regularly…knowledge is power.
We did *not* vaccinate our baby against Hep B, and that caused lots of raised eyebrows. We asked, even if this vaccination is beneficial, WHY SO EARLY? The only reason is because they don’t want to let anyone off the hook. Even the doctors didn’t argue with us when we said we believe it’s healthier to vaccinate later.
Thank you for the info 🙂 Not sure how I feel either way but it has given me some food for thought.
I don’t want to enter the vac. debate. However, I wanted to throw out something our doctor told us about many diseases and such that some want to blame on vac.
About 30 years ago we were told that sun was bad for our skin. Everyone started using sunscreen and staying out of the sun. We began depriving our body of a vital vitamin, vitamin D. It was put in milk and other food to try and fight off rickets (caused by a deficency in vit. D) However, it is not enough or the same as allowing our body to make in naturally in the sun.
Many studies have shown that there may be a link between autism and a lack of vitamin D. Also there are many other disease they are finding that may also be caused by this. It is something parents may need to consider.
To read more about it visit our doctor’s web page. And read her posts on her soapbox and immmunizations.
drjen4kids.com
PLease, please, PLEASE, go to this link.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/03/03/A-Vaccine-Form-You-Can-Give-to-Your-Pediatrician.aspx
I’m sorry it’s so huge.
Paris
I was going to give the Mercola article as well. He has lots of information on vaccinations. Did anyone else notice that about halfway through his published list of “ingredients” in the form, it mentions “human diploid cells (from aborted fetuses)”? I had seen this several weeks ago also on one of the newslinks that I follow.
But I do have a link that lists some books that you can investigate. http://www.curezone.com/books/best/categoryx.asp?CAT=735
i love how the doctors say that they have to cut the baby’s cord early because if they don’t it can cause jaundice, which just about every baby gets because they cut the cord early…
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