Our discussion on immodesty left us with two conclusions:
- Immodesty IS a problem
- As Christians, we must exercise grace in our speech and conduct with people–we are usually not at liberty to confront someone about dress (with the exception of maybe church authority?)
Given those conclusions, what, then, can we do? As a culture we allowed immodesty to reach a pornographic level; can we, as a culture, help turn it around?
I find it interesting that a hand full of people successfully had the phrase “Merry Christmas” banned from use in various public places. Now, even if I’m not a Christian, to what level would hearing those words actually “offend” me? I submit that if such an offense can be confronted on a public level, the public display of nudity can too. (BTW, in some areas, it is now illegal for a male to wear his pants below his underwear….that’s a little progress!)
I submit to you that while we must be gracious and loving in our response toward individuals about this and other matters, we are not doomed to be silent entirely. Silence (a.k.a. apathy) is one of the biggest problems in the church. Jesus was not silent, nor were the disciples and other saints of the past. We not only can, but are commanded to speak out against sin.
Now, let’s clarify…I hope you don’t think I’m walking around looking at every woman with a magnifying glass, asserting that she is immodest if her collar bone is showing. I’m not talking about questionable lines of immodesty where you and I may disagree. I’m talking about blatant immodesty; partial nudity, pornography.
I must practice discernment when dealing with people; but I do not have to be silently courteous about a business or public place allowing obscene displays.
To answer the question “what can we do”, we must first have to reveal (no pun intended 😉 the source of the problem. Is it not the media, the fashion industry, the marketing industry? Or maybe I’m wrong…any ideas on where it starts?
Provided it does start there, we can complain. We can talk about it. We can write letters to people responsible for those decisions. We can do the same thing people do when they successfully remove shreds of Christianity in the name of offense.
I entered a store last summer and was greeted, at the door, by a young (20 or so) girl wearing a tube top ? (which fell just below her bust line), revealing cleavage and a mini skirt. She was the “Budweiser girl” and she was not only greeting everyone who came in, but she was placing plastic necklaces (Mardi-gras type?) around the necks of the males that allowed her.
I was livid. I turned all shades of red and couldn’t even shop for the anger. (Remember, I believe in righteous indignation 🙂
I finally had to track down a manager, and I (believe it or not) calmly and politely stated my disappointment. I learned I was not the only shopper who had been upset and complained. I explained that I would leave the store if she remained there.
She did not stay. I’m sure I didn’t make major changes or anything, but I think 99 percent of the people who came in that store didn’t bother to say anything, even if they were shocked by the display. We are just apathetic, and I think it is to our detriment.
A friend of mine makes it a point to turn all the magazines around as she is standing in the checkout line. Little? Maybe…but it’s something. And it may just spur someone else into further action.
We don’t have to address people…but we can address immodesty. Apathy is not becoming a Christian. Just remember to smile while you’re turning the magazines around (that’s for those of you afraid of appearing anything but meek 🙂 I challenge you to get “concerned” enough about it to raise your voice.
By the way, “pornography” is defined in the Webster’s Dictionary as “obscene literature, photographs, paintings, etc. intended to cause sexual excitement”
Many fashion labels admittedly and publically claim to promote “sexy, alluring” clothing…some even use partial nudity in their advertisements. (One popular name brand specifically markets teenagers with explicit sexual advertising). Ask any man (who isn’t completely jaded) if the cover of Cosmopolitan “causes sexual excitement”…
22 comments
AMEN! You’re so right-it’s about time we did something other than just say to one another that immodesty is wrong. We Christians are commanded to be shining lights in this dark world, but we will not be obeying that command if we’re too worried of appearing strange, rude etc. I think it’s extremely important that we address this issue with kindness and love (by this they’ll know that we’re His disciples!), but it definitely needs to be addressed!
I don’t think for a minute that we should just be kind, sweet and quiet when experiencing a person at church dressed the way the young woman is at Candy’s church(the lady who commented on your last post). Her immodest attire is ruining the church services for many there at that church. I think she needs to be lovingly, kindly, and sweetly spoken to about this issue, but spoken to nonetheless!
I recently published a deovotional series on my blog on 1 Timothy 2:9-10(speaking on modesty in the church). I hope you all will come check it out. Here’s the link:
http://byhisgraceandforhisglory.blogspot.com/search/label/1%20Timothy%202%3A9-10
Blessings to all,
Rebekah
This was a great post mind if I post this on my blog!
http://adlynmorrison.blogspot.com/
This is *absolutely* right on. The “Budweiser girl” was probably told to dress provocatively, and going right up to her and speaking would be extremely counterproductive. You were right going to a manager to express your displeasure.
And yes, the woman in church should be spoken to on the following conditions:
She is a church MEMBER and has submitted to that authority;
She is a Christian who would care about the effects of her actions on others.
Otherwise, she’s just part of “the world,” and would adhere to that dress code, don’t you think? And you WANT those people in church to learn who Jesus is and what he’s done. That is a process that may take a while. I know the very *second* I was saved, my opinions on abortion and homosexuality weren’t changed. It took a little time and thought, and an openness to God’s Word applied in my life.
I’m truly glad your four-year-old has the modesty idea in her head so early and is able to express it. As she matures, she’ll have a more mature sense of what to say and when to say it and she will be a strong witness, God willing.
For those who have already read the post, please see the follow-up definition for pornography I added.
You’re right.
I think the problem doesn’t lie with the entertainment industry, media, or anything so obvious.
The problem is that this world, including those who claim the name of Christ, have strayed so far from God, the greater majority doesn’t even have a conscience anymore. They don’t even acknowledge its wrong because they’ve been brainwashed with the “if it feels good, do it” philosophy.
I was a youth leader for five years at my former church, and the teen girls would consistantly come to youth group dressed with shirts that showed too much. So, I bought a bunch of big t-shirts and made the girls put them on over their shirt if it was inappropriate. We’ve got to teach the next generation what is appropriate and what is not.
That definition of pornography definitely covers more than dirty magazines and stuff you’d find in the back room of a video store. It would seem that pornography is all around us! We’ve grown so accustomed to it that most of us (including me) barely notice it at all.
I just want to say that I have just recently started to learn that modesty is important. No one ever told me it was, even when I became a Christian…I continued to wear see-through, strapless mini-dresses. If someone would walk up to me with steam coming out of their ears I wouldn’t know why they were so mad at me and would just assume they were a crazy jerk. I guess what I’m saying is that if these girls are anything like me, no one has ever told them what modest looks like, or that it matters so just remember that before you feel like yelling at them. Also, someone does need to figure out a way to tell these girls because the message is not even getting out in churches.
You make a wonderful point! This comment was so convicting to me: “We don’t have to address people…but we can address immodesty.” How right you are and what a compassionate way to point it out. I admit to being one of those people to just ignore for fear of how I would sound if I spoke up. But if I view it the way you stated, than what does it matter how I sound? I am NOT addressing a person, I am addressing something that I do not agree with, that I find offensive, and that I do not want my children exposed. Thank you for strong but compassionate, beautifully written words.
First of all, if your church is only full of other Christians: then what is wrong with your church?
The primary mission of the church is to save the lost, to preach the gospel, to shed light into darkness.
It’s not about exhorting everyone to dress modestly!
I can think of no quicker way to turn off an unbeliever than by telling them they are dressing in pornographic attire! You will never see them again and you may have hindered the saving word of the cross from reaching their ears!
First off, I commend you talking to the manager of that store. As another reader said, that was a wiser move than talking to the girl herself.
Well, more to say…:) One of my biggest passions in life is relational evangelism…I find it a natural desire to really get to KNOW unbelievers, see where they are at and have chances to challenge them on wrong life style choices (such as living with a boyfriend, WEARING IMMODEST CLOTHING, or blasphemy) but only after I have really begun to invest in them. It is hard work sometimes and is more time consuming but compared to just walking up to random people who you never intend to see again and telling them they are showing some sort of indecent behavior, I feel it is totally worth it.
These people may feel the weight of your words but it won’t equate to love or care in their eyes. They won’t think, “Oh, that person must be a Christian!” NOt that this way of going about things is always wrong but if this is the only way you ever attempt to make an impact as a Christian, I feel it is taking a really easy way out. And it is not stretching you as a believer to really know the full weight of your depravity and what you’ve been graciously saved from. Relational evangelism really does this and gives you a chance to learn many heart breaking stories from lost souls along the way.
If you can put yourself in the shoes of, say, that “Budweiser girl” for a minute, you might realize that for many such as herself, their bodies are all they have left. They are so lost and have given themselves away again and again. They have no true sense of worth or dignity or propriety. They already likely have a very low view of themselves so if we go and view them as basically “sluts” or “filth,” we’re only perpetuating the problem.
I just think it is so much easier to get hung up on matters of modesty but what does it really do? It keeps us from really wanting to reach the hearts of these women…that is where God wants us to begin. That is where our real work begins.
Elizabeth, where do you get from the Bible that the church is for unsaved people? The church is for the edification of believers. People that get saved join the church, and you will get unbelievers visiting, but church is not an evangelism session, it’s for the SAVED, which is evidenced all throughout the New Testament.
Mrs. W: I said the primary PURPOSE of the church is to reach the lost.
You believe it’s sanctification. Well and good.
We need both in the church! :0)
I was one of those immodestly/inappropriatly dressed women at one time. My mother (not a Christian)did not believe in virtually any guidance in clothing matters. A kind lady in church gave a lesson to all of the ladies on modesty and Godly, feminine apparel. I was initially angry (my pride kicked in big time) and then I searched the scriptures for myself and found that she was right. I now befriend the young girls and gently guide them in the right way (although it’s hard when the older ladies are not on the same page Biblically).
I think of classical art work, with so much nudity, as early pornography. It makes me sick to know that it is honored and celebrated as the greatest works.
There is a lot to be said about music being influencial in the same ways, too. It is very annoying to me to have to shop or eat in places that fill the air with these tunes. A few times I have spoken out about it and had them turn it off–but I do not do it enough. More often, I just try to ignore it, but that is kind of hard to do with all of my children along!
–B
Elizabeth…
I’ve just had the chance to sit down and comment about the church…I strongly disagree with you that “something is wrong with your church” if it is primarily full of Christians”.
Like Mrs. W said, the church (the group of people with whom we meet on the Sabbath) is a body of believers who meet to worship…an unbeliever *can’t* worship. We “assemble ourselves” together for worship, edification, and to prepare to “go into the world and make disciples”.
I think this basic misunderstanding about the meaning and purpose of the church is part of a lot of problems within the church. If our focus is “bringing in the lost” instead of “sending out believers to the lost”, it changes the whole dynamics of how we operate as a church.
Susanna Rose,
I like what you said about “relational evangelism”…it kind of goes along the lines of what our discussion about what church is for. Really, the Great Commission is “Relational Evangelism”.
To allude to Elizabeth’s comment, while church is to equip believers, the believers then, are to put their faith in practice through real evangelism–living out our faith alongside the lost in a way that matters. I think you have a really great point about why it would not be best to confront a non-believer about immodesty.
With that said, I don’t think the non-believer’s “darkness” on such issues should be dictacting what the church does.
If you do have the proper understanding of how the church operates (that church is for believers, primarily to gather), you don’t base your philosophy around “making people feel comfortable”. As hard as it sounds, if an unbeliever walks into a church, he or she should feel uncomfortable to some degree. (Light has no fellowship with darkness). If they do not, I submit that something is wrong with THAT church.
A non-believer that walks into a “New Testament-model church”, is either desiring truth and repentance and will be relieved that he has found it, or he will bolt out the door because he doesn’t like the way he feels there. Does that make sense?
We love them, we welcome them, and we pray God brings them to repentance. But we don’t change truth for them; we don’t get tattoos so they don’t feel bad about theirs (not that tattoos are inherently bad..don’t miss the point); we don’t wear immodest fashions so they feel more comfortable. We don’t avoid talking about “offensive” subject to make sure everybody comes back again. That’s pragmatism, not biblical teaching.
BTW, to Elizabeth’s comment:
“The primary mission of the church is to save the lost, to preach the gospel, to shed light into darkness.
It’s not about exhorting everyone to dress modestly!”
Paul was PRECISELY exhorting the church when he said “women should adorn themselves in modest apparel”!!! I Tim chapter 2 is a great chapter on “what the church is about”.
If the church is not teaching it, families aren’t living it, and society isn’t reflecting it.
“A non-believer that walks into a “New Testament-model church”, is either desiring truth and repentance and will be relieved that he has found it, or he will bolt out the door because he doesn’t like the way he feels there.”
Kelly,
I agree and I think that thinking about what the purpose of the church is is very helpful in view of this discussion!
By the way, I really appreciate your posts and the honesty with which you voice your thoughts. It is obvious that though you have strong convictions, they are based in a love of truth, not just in having strong opinions for the sake of having strong opinions. And you do not berate people who may not fully agree with you which I also appreciate. As a person who admires people with conviction, I find this a unique trait about your blog!:)
Susanna Rose–I appreciate that!
The pupose of the church is (and I quote):… “for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.”
When the saints are equipped, we in turn take our lights out into the world to fulfill the Great Commission. I do think that an unbeliever who walks into a church dressed immodestly should be struck by the fact that all the other women in the place look very different. I also think they should be struck by the fact that we so showered them with the love of Christ that they have a deep desire for a personal relationship with Him and to make whatever changes necessary to please God who loved them so much that He paid for their sins.
Unfortunately, more often than not they are not struck by the modesty (in short supply even in the church), or the love (in even shorter supply in some cases). And its too bad.
Very well said, Terry!
i really like what susanna rose had to share; i posted a likened snippet in my horse-length post on the forementioend page.
i agree with Elizabeth though too that we are not to make HUGE issues out of the dress. within a sermon…a mention here or there, okay. very quickly i could see the pulpit being used for making huge issues out of more minor issues. if what is being preached at the pulpit IS shedding light on darkness…..dress will be covered and touched on, even when not mentioned outright 🙂
everyone goes through their oen unique PROCESS in Gods ORDAINED time for that individual. when we are enlightened on something, how we pleasure in being let in on a great and prized revelation. it is a sweet thing. to prematurely inform someone ahead of their scheduled time could be detrimental. much wisdom is needed. im not saying it is never an issue…..but great care must be taken. no one wants their clothing to be shamed or sexualized. many women are living in the culture and have no idea. we need to be super-sensitive as to how it will be received. one can mean well and still cause a lot of damage. speaking the truth in love is the only way. simply speaking the truth is sin. cause it isnt coupled with love. ive seen the truth spoke a lot, and been there to listen….to a person who was already brought up in criticism, shame, and guilt……it can be severly harmful. just a consideration going up to ‘confront’ someone on it. Yes Paul spoke about womens dress……..but did he go up one on one to someone? two different things, IMO.
I guess I take different stances becasue i have been on the side of being hurt and harmed by rules and judgment and legalism. it is awful…..i needed serious counseling to overcome, and im still not there. ive learned that people seem to gravitate toward those who invest in a relationship with them, and become intimate. intimacy was something God wanted terribly with us. i place it above all else. to have truth and do Gods will that way, but lack intimacy, really isnt doing Gods will after all. maybe i misunderstand; i do know the world has gone awry but my anger and dismay at it all is really MY problem to deal with……not be looking to constantly correct others. when i do that, the focus goes off mea dn MY responsibility……another terrible place to be…..backsliding.