Inevitably a hot topic. When I post about this topic, it really makes me think deeply. Sometimes I let doubt creep in, because I am so passionate about it, and I would hate to be passionate about something that doesn’t matter. Sometimes I think, “Maybe God doesn’t really have an opinion about this at all. Maybe He has left it completely up to us to decide.”
And then another thought…
God not have an opinion? You mean, indifference toward life? What am I? A Life? Does He have an opinion about me? Was it such a strong one that He sent His only Son to be a ransom for my soul? My immortal, eternal soul?
Life…immortal…eternal…HEAVY.
Do I really believe God doesn’t have an opinion about the way we handle life? Do I count a fertilized egg as a scientific blimp that I *forgot* to prevent? Do I consider a baby in my womb another “decision” to make…or avoid?
Or do I look at life as eternal, immortal–the way God looks at it. And if I see life for what it is, doesn’t that change drastically the way I handle it? Think about it? Treat it?
31 comments
I am just curious about your thoughts this. What about natural childbirth vs. interventions such as epidurals, pitocin, etc.? They are sometimes necessary, but what about when they are NOT necessary? If preventing the conception of children is wrong (b/c God sees children as blessings and He created women’s bodies to be pregnant and give birth), then why isn’t it wrong to “prevent” birth from happening the way God intended it to happen (when someone’s life is not in danger). Same thing about breastfeeding – God created breasts to make milk for babies. Is it wrong to NOT use them for that purpose just because formula is available? I’m not talking about the small percentage of ladies who have a physical problem that makes it impossible to breastfeed their babies. God gave women the capability to get/be pregnant, give birth, and nurse babies (among other things). Do you feel the same way about childbirth and breastfeeding that you do about not preventing conception? Some people argue that we should use birth control because it is available. Just because labor drugs and formula are available, does that mean we should use them? After all, they are not what God intended when He created our bodies. Thoughts? Not saying one way is wrong, just wanting to know what you think.
I’m also curious about using help with fertility. What do you think about using drugs or other means to help with fertility? Is this the same problem as preventing pregnancy? Are we trying to “force His hand”, or will He still prevail no matter how hard we try?
I ask because, I’m now a mom of two (8 and 5) and just the this past year, really taken a hard look at what God’s will would be regarding my womb and realized it should be His will to do with it what he chooses. Having said that, we’re still awaiting the joyous news of a new one on the way. Every month, when it’s a “no”, I soothe myself knowing that His will is perfect and His timing is perfect, so I wait. But then the “world” creeps in and I wonder if maybe I should try to help it out a bit and take the drugs that helped me become pregnant with my 5 year old. I guess i really feel like if His timing is perfect, then what business do I have of trying to push it along. And if I believe He is in charge of my womb, then would it make any difference if I used them or not? I guess it wouldn’t.
Gee sometimes, just typing something out and thinking about it that way, makes the answer seem so much clearer! I guess I just wanted to hear what someone else had to say about it and not just the voices in my head!!
Thanks Kelly for your blog and words. You may never know how many women listened to your wisdom and opened up their wombs to God. What a blessing you are to those women (me included!!) and the babies they bring forth!! Keep it up!!
Great questions…here are my opinions:
I see them as very different. Breastfeeding: obviously God’s best and the way he created it. Wrong to bottle feed? I’d say no.
Pain meds during birth: (I’m a big epidural fan, believe it or not.) Pain is a curse. Part of the curse of sin. Life is not a curse. So those two can’t be compared in my eyes. (Much like having novacaine at the dentist?)
That takes us right into medicine…this used to be my argument…”God gave us wisdom in the medical field, and if we just let our bodies do what they were born to do, we’d die of all kinds of illnesses. (I actually have to take a daily thyroid med to live.)
BIG difference: Again, pain and sickness were NOT a part of God’s original design of the body. He didn’t create our bodies to be sick and die. His passion for healing while He was here demonstrates that. He is a promoter of life, which is what medicine does. Birth control works against life.
Promoting life through meds, surgery, etc. is promoting LIFE. Taking birth control is not medicine to prevent an illness. It is the opposite of promoting life.
BTW how do you feel about vaccines? They promote life by helping to keep us healthy yet some are made using unbelieveable products.
Just curious.
Anon,
Ironically, I was just thinking about this a few hours ago. To be honest, I don’t really know exactly where I stand on this one (I’ve never been forced to make a decision, I guess.)
I know that many fertility drugs have been taken to the extreme, and now there are thousands of babies literally “frozen” in time, with their parents not having a clue what to do with them.
Nevertheless, because I am not opposed to medicine that helps repair what is broken, fertility would have to have its place in there somewhere.
Surely this would be an area a husband and wife would really need to seek the Lord about. Tricky, for sure.
Thanks so much!
We personally don’t vaccinate based on health risks that have recently been made known in the field. But I’m still friends with people who do *big grin*
Kelly:
As you know, the Lord convicted me of my own use of birth control pills. Shortly thereafter, the Lord blessed me with twins. However, my body has suffered as the result of the twin pregnancy. I won’t bore anyone with the details, but suffice to say, getting pregnant now would not only be foolish it would defy my husband’s wishes.
He would like a healthy mother to raise his five children! Not a dead one! 😉
My point is, you go too far in your zeal against birth control. Taking respite, allowing the fields to rest–this is biblical. Not every woman’s body is the same, not all of us bounce back as well as you do.
Please do not equate those of us who obey our husband’s desire to see us rest & regain our strength as being arrogant and/or playing God.
Indeed, it is humility regarding our human frailty that motivates us to tend our weak mortal vessels, to allow our bodies rest.
I guess I find it surprising that this post has brought such accusation of “condemnation and judgement”.
If you go back and read the post carefully, and were only responding to the post, you would see that I’m not pinpointing every situation and every husband/wife choice to “take a break”
Elizabeth and Molly, you have both jumped past the post and reacted to things I’m not addressing here.
REGARDLESS of my thoughts that I believe it’s best when a couple can submit their family size to God’s sovereignty, the issue at hand is about the insane, ridiculous notion the general public has adopted toward children BECAUSE OF the acceptance of birth control.
May I confirm my point:
I never called anyone “arrogant”. I said WE, as a group, its a GENERAL inference, have become arrogant in our ability to control children.
It is NOT normal to me when somone finds out she’s expecting her third child, all circumstances fairly normal, and she is literally not knowing how to cope from the barrage of insults, as well as her own sudden “lack of control”.
My post was related directly to the danger I see when we so flippantly accept OUR control over the womb without considering that God has any control.
And I’m asking the question…what gives? Can we hold both in our hands?
I have repeatedly (I guess you two missed that part) said that I would never condemn a couple who prayerfully decided to space their children for health purposes. I may not personally choose that, and everyone believes in different degrees of sovereignty…and there is a fine line between deciding when the break God has given is not enough.
I intend no insults or condemnation. As I always have, I ask questions and relay my thoughts to provoke you to think about things.
Molly, one of the very things I’m asking is, who do we believe gives life? You said, “He (husband), for his part, is totally repentant of “commanding” me to get pregnant then…”
You really believe your husband has that kind of power?
Space your children if that’s what your husband and the Lord has asked you to do. I’ve not forbidden it!
And by all means, don’t just have children because you feel some kind of social pressure. Molly you have already told us that you were very legalistic in your “former life”. Fine.
However, some of us do the things we do because we desire to obey God in the areas He is showing us. And to challenge others to think about His sovereignty over life when the world has lied to us about it, is something I’m glad someone did for me.
FYI – on the vaccine comment – a few of the common (and other not common) vaccines are prepared from the cells from aborted fetuses. Chickenpox and the rubella component of MMR.
Kelly,
Couldn’t help but think of you tonight while reading to my children when we came to Proverbs 9:8.
The other thing here is this: I’m thinking Kelly is talking a bit about “the world” and even “the church” in general. The average Christian couple, sitting the pew, probably hasn’t given their fertility much thought. Some have, some have heard of the term “quiverful”. Some have had many blessings and then, for whatever reason, felt they needed to “stop”. Ok.
I just don’t think Kelly was referring to those specific cases. I felt she was being a bit more general, in how the world views children. Many, MANY couples I know ~ good, godly couples ~ are on the Pill and have never given it another thought. Why would they? It’s excepted and even encouraged. If you’re *not* on the Pill – what’s wrong with YOU!?!
It’s about the way we look at life (we = your average American, even average American Christian). Are we really looking at life the way God does? Or have we bought into the world’s view of babies, children and the family?
And just to clarify: I’ve had four c/s. I’m guessing some day I’m going to have to make a tough decision regarding having babies and my health, my uterus. I’m not someone who blindly believes a woman should keep having babies NO MATTER WHAT.
Regardless of your end decision about having another child…..what do you believe about life? Does it line up with God’s? Or are you being sucked into the world’s views, which sound really good, make sense and everyone else agrees with (oh, except God)……
If you have struggled through difficult decision regarding more babies, I don’t believe this post is in ANY way an attack. If you have struggled with this, then I’m betting you know how important life is the Lord and you probably agree with Him. It’s the people who give it no thought…..who just go along with whatever is “normal” in this world….those are the people that need to wake up and realize how important this issue is to God.
Just my thoughts ~ Kelly, obviously feel free to disagree with any of this (and anyone else feel free as well). I’m married to a Children’s Pastor so we discuss this A LOT!!
~Lori
Lori,
You articulated EXACTLY what I was trying to convey…
I see it as a need to work backwards in our thinking…if we start out with the same worldview as the culture about birth control and who is in control of life, then nothing more than our own flesh drives our decisions.
Once a couple fully embraces the blessing of children and knows that it is God that ordains life, then there is more freedom in those difficult decisions like you mentioned. They are now weighing heavily on the strength of the Lord and are reverently approaching the subject.
I’m not putting every couple’s personal circumstances under a microscope; I’m trying to overturn the apathy and lack of any thought on our part to understand the sacredness of life.
Thanks for getting it.
Molly —
I can see that from your past and circumstances that in your home the legalistic view was taken (especially by your husband.. no disrespect intended).
I know a lot of people who live legalistic lives in other forms besides birth control (where they expect others to fall in line, take certain Scriptures to EXTREME degrees). And because they felt that way (took things way out of context… and went way too far), they think everyone else practicing their outward standards think/feel the same way they do. I have a relative who was very very strict outwardly. Very judgmental. Eventually she “changed” and went the “other way”. She’s free, she says.
Now all I hear about from her EVERY TIME I talk to her is condemnation about those who are living those standards she is now “free from”. Problem is, I am living those standards myself. I feel complete freedom,joy, and contentment in the way I live. I don’t go around judging others like she did when she went to my type of church. She is just ASSUMING that because she was soooooo judgmental that everyone else at that type of church is too. Her paranoia is unbelievable!
I am not a QF mom. I had my tubes tied and I have been reading Kelly’s blog for a long time. I have never ONCE felt judged by her. I have always felt that she is making me think about these things. Perhaps to at least be more sensitive with my comments to mothers with big families.
I don’t think she is looking at my particular situation and clicking her tongue at me.
In my neck of the woods… and any neck of the woods I have ever lived, I have always seen the rolling of the eyes and whispers when a big family walks by. I have never EVER heard anyone condemned for having 2 kids. I think that’s her whole agenda here. To address our culture’s disdain for having a big family, and to make people realize that children are a blessing (as you have also said).
Please don’t be like my relative and sit on “the other side” and judge those who you assume believe how you did. I think carefulness AND CHRISTIAN LOVE is very important in this area.
I agree with you Kelly. This is good timing for me, because it’s an issue that is weighing heavily on my mind right now. We just had baby #4 (8 days ago!!) and given my pattern of fertility in the past because of breastfeeding, we have awhile until another baby would come along. But the transition to 4 has been the toughest yet, and I have had MANY thoughts of “are we really called to this, can we really handle this” etc, in regards to having more children. It’s SCARY!! Having a couple kids was no big deal compared to what it feels like now having 4, and I’m sure with each one it gets more intense. I wonder if it’s “wise” to just keep going.
But then I remember the One who’s really in control, and it’s not me (thankfully). If we cannot handle it, or it’s time for us to stop, He’s just as capable of making that happen, as He is giving us more life. I truly believe God alone is the author of life, and it’s not my place to stick my grubby, controlling hands in there and fool around with His plans.
However, God has blessed me with relatively easy pregnancies and deliveries (which I am thankful for and give HIM all the glory), and I know some women are in a much tougher place than I am. But like Kim says at http://www.inashoe.com this is a CHOICE we all need to make, no matter where we’re coming from. It’s a hard one, but it is a choice.
P.S.- I just had to agree with the above commenter who said the attitude today is that there is something wrong with you if you’re not on birth control. I have seen that time and time again just in my own experience, and we “only” have 4!! I DREAD the conversation at my first visit to the Dr./midwife after I have a baby:
“What birth control are you on?”
“None.”
“You do realize you can get pregnant then, right?”
“Uhhhh….yes.”
“And that’s *okay* with you??!?!”
Argh. Everytime it goes the same way. Everytime.
First of all, I think I’d like to live in the part of the country where Molly doesn’t get negative vibes with a family of five!!! Since we had our first, my in-laws have been telling us to stop at three. Both of my SIL’s had stopped with two, then the eldest had a third with her youngest daughter at 6yo and it really rocked the family.
It took more than 6mo to concieve our 1st, which was very startling. My mom was pregnant the month she wanted to be, and she is one of 17 children. I’ve always been grateful that my grandma went at least to number 8, because that’s my mama. I expected to have their fertility, and I don’t. I have cycles ranging from 32-76 days, and ani-ovulatory cycles are common for me. I also have had bouts with cysts.
Along comes our first son. Then we miscarry. I pretty much wanted to die – stopped eating, drinking, went comatose. When I finally snapped out of it, I realized that there was a good chance I was pregnant again – weeks after the miscarrige. I didn’t want to test, but dh asked me to. When I did, I was swept with peace. That pregnancy was blanketed in prayer, and ended with our second son being born at 35 weeks. My FIL believes it’s because “my husband” got me pregnant too fast. There is the conviction that I’m being put in an early grave – though I’m very healthy and being so sick is a good sign for me that I have the hormones the baby needs.
Our son ended up because of his size on percautionary antibiotics for almost 2 weeks in the NICU, and because of that (among other things) I was warned my fertility might return sooner this time. It did. I was very shocked not to be due in December, and expected not to be due until end of Feb or March with my cycle history, but concieved earlier in a cycle than ever before, so I’m due the end of Jan. I feel so much condemnation sometimes that I want to explain to people that this the probably the closest spacing we’ll have – but I don’t. I don’t feel like I should be apologzing, anyway….
I read your comments, Molly, very carefully yesterday. I’m taking more vitamins and minerals than I ever took with #1 or #2 – I know this is going to take a toll. I watched my sons play together and thought about how incredibly sad it would be if my eldest was still an “only”. It would have been soooo easy to prevent Elijah’s conception. When I finally felt mentally healed and physically ready, what child would I have had then?
Yesterday we went to the bank, and my 28mo was given a sucker. He wanted one instantly for his too-little brother. People kept asking his name, and he would say “Sam’l – Yi-ya!” introducing everyone enthusiastically to his brother, Elijah. He does not want his brother overlooked, ever! There is this unique bond between them that I love watching . . . .
So really you are only telling part of the story. Yes, I throw up a lot. I don’t chase my 2yo around as much, we read stories from the sofa and tickle each other and make faces. And even when I don’t feel good, they have each other, and can make each other giggle over and over which is just music to my ears.
Yes, it takes creativity. I don’t always get my shower! I’ll probably be washing my hair in the sink this morning. 🙂 Sometimes the only reason I throw up is because I have to change those dirty diapers. My 2yo is more independant than most – he brings me the milk and his cup, and I keep dried fruit in clear, reachable jars so he typically selects his own snack and brings me the jar to open.
I love it. Sometimes -like last week – I wonder if it does matter – the opinion seems to be that it doesn’t at all! Why not wait, and space out as we think best . . . reading your comments has helped me to reach conclusions you probably wouldn’t like! 😀
I don’t know what I would think if my husband came to me and said we were going to be ‘trying’ to get pg. I think I would wonder what on earth his hurry was!
Oh, and growing up it was me – 4yrs – 4yrs – 2yrs. The gaps never meant anything to me, but they do make a difference in what you can do together. Growing up, if you had asked me, all I wanted was more siblings. I begged my mom to have a fifth . . . oh, well.
I just wanted to share the other side. I don’t dwell for a moment on the outings we undoubtably miss because I’m too “sick” – we make few trips to the park when I’m feeling great! I see what we do have -each other-, and my cup runneth over. 🙂
Ashley
http://www.homesteadblogger.com/jonash2004
Ashley,
I grew up in Africa/England, and our big family (six children) was never remarked upon. My father works for an oil company, and we spent a year in New England and a year in California also, and I can’t remember any stares (I was in my early teens, so VERY attuned to other peoples’ opinions of me!)
Now I’m a stay at home wife. For the last year, I’ve been taking medication that would greatly harm a developing baby, and probably cause a miscarriage, so my husband and I have been preventing conception. Last month we found out I can go off the medication at long last, so we are over the moon about that!!
Now, I have never felt condemned because of my big family, or because I don’t have a job (although perhaps my illness factors into that… maybe people assume I couldn’t work?). I have read a few articles online about birth control… one said that even if you weren’t having babies for medical reasons, you were still making a choice to control life, and you could still choose to ignore the advice of your doctor… I thought it was pretty insensitive. But it was just one article, and for everything like that there are 99 articles and blog posts that brim with compassion. And I have NEVER heard someone say anything like that to me in person.
Basically, I don’t know. I guess there are a lot of different congregations and neighbourhoods out there. But I have never heard anyone criticise big families or stay at home moms and I would leave a church if it wasn’t family-affirming. I guess maybe I’m a bit sheltered? I’ve been talking to a friend online about this for a while and she has a very different view, being a child of non-Christian divorced parents. She thinks I’m a bit of a Pollyanna!
But my personal experience, which comes from all over the world, has been that people really love children. It breaks my heart to think that people would not get that, that they would get grief from their friends! Get new friends if these ones are so wierdly negative! There are loads of Christ-affirming, family-affirming people out there!
Kelly, it’s just a thought, and I don’t know that ‘girl’/woman, but maybe the pastor’s wife was so insistent about no more children because of the toll of the fertility treatment? Or maybe she puts it on because some people don’t approve of fertility treatments and she’s afraid of what they’ll say? It’s hard to know what people who’ve been infertile can think, often there can be pressure on them to just adopt, when that’s such a hard process, especially for a young couple. Or maybe her infertility means she’s facing a particularly difficult pregnancy? I don’t know, but there could be a lot of reasons for her flippancy besides a lack of Godly thinking in this regard – especially since she’s a pastor’s wife. I think any infertile Christian woman has probably prayed and thought a LOT about God’s control of the womb.
Just a thought, not meant to be a criticism of you at all! I know I don’t know her, and so your initial reading of the situation is probably far more valuable than mine.
Claire,
You’re right for considering different factors that could have been involved.
Unfortunately, I asked a few questions.
To her: “Has this been a difficult pregnancy for you?” “Oh, no…I’ve felt great.”
Me: “It’s such a miracle that God opened your womb after all that time.”
Her: “Yep.. But two’s all I can handle!” (She only has one at this point!)
And then, (hold your breath), I asked her husband later, when she wasn’t present…”Have y’all ever considered letting God be sovereign over your womb?” (With a smile, not condemnation 😉
“long pause….thoughtful response: “No. We actually haven’t. That’s the first time I’ve ever heard that.” Then later in the conversation…”I’ve really been thinking a lot about what you asked.”
So my point with that story was to reinforce what seems to be the common mentality among the church.
We hardly even let God in on the equation.
Everyone,
I think it MUST have to do with where you live. I grew up in the one area of the country… although I don’t live there anymore. This is the normal: anyone with more than 2 or 3 usually gets comments and whispers (maybe not to their face but if it is to their face it’s usually laced with sweetness).
I am coming at this from the OTHER side. The side where you don’t have a big family (I DON’T) and you hear people talking behind the lady with the big family’s back.
Where I live now, it’s more acceptable to have a big family but if you have more than four….. good grief. What are you??? A rabbit???? I am not kidding!!!!
One lady I know has eight kids and named them all by the alphabet. Someone made the comment “maybe you should name #8 ‘hysterectomy’ and stop!” But they didn’t say this to her face…
Maybe that’s why everyone has this different opinion on how people treat you. I have never ever HEARD OR SEEN anyone who says you must have lots of kids or you aren’t a Christian. Hmmmm…
I am going to stop reading these comments though on this particular post right now because I am really fearful of being misled. I just finished my morning devotions and I just happened to be in
II Peter 2 & 3.
BE CAREFUL PEOPLE!
Also, I am fearful that I might not take care of my precious little treasures if I am sitting here blog-reading and arguing all day!
I just want to add that my husband and I volunteer to watch the babies in our church every week, and almost every week, someone in there is talking about someone else in the church “having another baby” and how crazy they must be, even if it’s only the 3rd, or how they could never handle that many, or that they had enough with 2 or 3 of their own. I get so frustrated sitting in a room, cuddling all the little babies, and hearing these women joke around about this.
I truly believe like Kelly and michiganmomma said, SO MANY people do not even have it on their radar screens to consider God and His will in this decision. They have all bought into the mainstream thinking that a couple is enough of kids, and that’s it. I just think it’s so incredibly sad to see them saying these things in a church nonetheless.
I believe we do have to get the word out, that using our own human wisdom, is just not enough on these huge and so incredibly important decisions. And it has been my experience, in an area that votes “conservatively”, that so many people are just out there making their own decisions with no regard to seeking God’s will at all. I don’t think they even realize they should seek His will in these areas and that’s the problem.
So anyway, Kelly keep it up, you are making a difference. And I heard in a sermon the other day, that if you aren’t being attacked for your beliefs, then you’re not telling them enough. So rejoice in the attacks (if you can!!), it means you’re doing the right thing!!
Hi everyone…no time for thoughtful commentary this morning – just TOO much to do but maybe later (!) 🙂 I love my Molly girl (a whole lot!) but I do have to agree with Kelly that most of the Christian world just does not even consider asking God what He has for their family. On-line? Maybe. But in real life? Most people think you are nutso if you have more than 4 kids. (But no, just for clarification, I don’t think all Christians are sinners for considering a mama’s health in the conception of children. As for me and my husband, God has led us to leave the timing up to Him.)
See, I have 8 children myself. Most of the time I live in my own happy and blessed little world, and think that if I am so happy with these young ones then everyone must see my joy and will see how good it is to have children.
But then, I read comments in the Mommylife section on large families, and I read how we are judged. I think this is why large families get really defensive, and feel that they need to put out this picture of perfection. We are so open to criticism that can really sting…and yes, it is usually from within the church.
Here’s the link. It makes my stomach hurt.
http://mommylife.net/archives/2007/04/kids_by_the_doz.html
I send love to all of you, my sisters here.
I’ve been silent so far…and it’s been great reading everyone’s comments.
Molly, I have also had 5 kids in 6 years and I’m also wiped out. Baby #5 is 11.5 months old now. The first few months were a blur. We added a new baby and had our first year of homeschooling this year. Talk about exhausted…lol.
Shortly after her birth, it seems I went through something similar where I just decided I couldn’t do it anymore. I also ended up with some health issues (albeit minor). The thought of ever adding another child to the mix made me wake up in a cold sweat at night. I felt tremendous guilt for feeling that way.
But my husband and I took it to the Lord.
And I think this is exactly what Kelly is referring to. So many couples do not consider the One who is the Author of life. That is where we (as humans) are arrogant. Even Christians assume it is totally up to them and they never consider how God views children and having babies. We’re happy to sit in condemnation of the Christian who has a beer on Saturday night or smokes cigarettes. Yet, when we hear a newly married couple say, “We’re never having children. They are just disgusting and I could not do that to my body. There is so much we want to achieve in life and children will get in the way.” Or “I don’t care what the books you gave me say, I’m taking the pill. I’m not risking having a child.” (And those things have been said to me by my very own uber-CHRISTIAN family).
It’s shameful that in the church these are the views that are perpetuated. And we sit back and say, “Well that’s their decision.” But oh heavens, “I saw xxx at Outback having a BEER! Can you believe it? I’m certainly taking this to the pastor.” PLEASE! Sorry, but I believe having children is of much further consequence to the kingdom of God. As a church, we should be ashamed of ourselves!
Now, after being in prayer for several months, my husband and I decided to not approach each other with such reckless abandon…lol. God has not blessed our womb again and we are fine with that. We are not using any birth control, but I’m more mindful of when I am fertile. And I’m finally to the point where I can say, I’m at total peace with whatever He gives us. I’m still tired as heck, but I’m confident that God hears my pleading and sees the difficulties I have.
On another note, I also have a pastor’s wife (the youth pastor) who condemns our family size. Every conversation with her leaves my blood boiling…lol. She is pregnant with #3 and always shakes her head and tells me we’re crazy (She also points to her belly and says, “THIS IS IT for us!” . And she’s sincere about it. I think I’m going to try your line Kelly…lol.
And Lori, my husband is going on staff as our Children’s Pastor on August 1st! One thing he’s starting with is some teacher training and his first class will be “God’s View of Children.” LOL!
Anyway, I think really that Christian couples should give child bearing more consideration. They aren’t something you acquire to go with your bigger car or to fill the rooms of your big house. Seeking God’s will is imperative!
Holy cow, people get upset about Christians drinking beer? My husband and I have gone out for beers with both our pastors! I guess that’s because we’re Lutheran. 😉
LOL, Mrs. Sara, well, being Lutheran explains it. You see, us Southern Baptists are much more strict 😉 At least the church I grew up in is. And you don’t have my Southern Baptist inlaws…lol. My husband and I are in our 30s, and we have a bottle of wine buried WAAAAAY back in our fridge…lest anyone see it and discover we drink wine…lol. Oh my, it would surely make us much less holy. ;0 My husband used to work for a ministry that made us sign papers saying we wouldn’t have alcohol in our home. So yes, some Christians do get up in arms if your discovered drinking any kind of alcoholic beverage.
Now, I don’t see a problem with a glass of wine or a beer. But we surely shouldn’t drink to get drunk (Although,I’m certain the Russian Orthodox believe otherwise. As I witnessed one of those ministers getting totally wasted at a wedding and twirling his robe over his head. But I can’t really speak for them. 😉
Kelly, sorry to veer off the topic there…lol.
Kim M,
II Peter 2 and 3. Wow, good stuff. It’s been a while since I read that. Thanks for “spurring” me to read that today. Diana
This is going off on another tangent, but I just feel the urge to do so. 🙂
Molly said, “The godly women will “trust God” and leave her womb open (which is an underhanded way of saying that women who make choices about their womb are UNgodly and NOT trusting). The message comes through, one way or another.”
I am an older woman (today’s my birthday; I’m 54) who has experienced the regret of limiting her family because NO ONE ever spoke of anything different — including the Church. I NEVER heard anything negative about birth control. The only advice I was given was to make sure I went to the doctor to get my pills three months before I got married. It was years later when my husband and I were introduced by the Lord to the “new thinking” that the Word of God addressed EVERYTHING, that we started searching for answers ourselves. We came across some “answers” that we weren’t even looking for! One of those was the idea of letting God control every area of our lives — including our womb.
But, back to the tangent I was going to address: “which is an underhanded way of saying that women who make choices about their womb are UNgodly and NOT trusting.”
If we are to use this premise for any decision in our lives, we are never going to grow — whether in actions, choices, or in wisdom.
For example, my husband and I decided to homeschool when our children were already in grade school. My husband was on the school board and came to the conclusion that the more you know about public schools, the easier it is to remove your children. However, our decision to homeschool OUR children made many people — church members and family members — very upset with us. By OUR choice, they felt that we were somehow JUDGING THEIR choices.
So, what would be the answer? The only way that those people would feel that we were not judging them, would be for us to make the same choices that they were making. Then all would be cool.
So, it would be with the idea of birth control. If a couple chooses not to use birth control because they are “willing to give the Almighty God sovereignty over their womb and family”, then those who do not choose to do so feel that they (the anti-bc) are infringing on their (the pro-bc) right to make their choice guilt-free. They do not ever want to feel like someone might have a higher standard than they do, because then they may have to acknowledge it. So, in order to not to have to change themselves, they just call the others judgmental. That way, they are left in the clear. Whew!
Please do not make this mistake of thinking that a person’s choice to go deeper (no matter how this looks to them), automatically makes them think you are ungodly. This is not logical. But, then again, as a pastor’s wife, I have many occasions to see the illogical thinking of Christians!
Grace and Peace,
Dorothy
I have come to experience that the ones who tend to feel the most “judged” are the ones who have the most judgment in their hearts. Because they look through the eyes of judgment, they assume everyone does the same. Just my observation, and personal experience – the Lord revealed that in my own heart a while back, and has since brought me into His grace.
Diana, your welcome. 🙂 I really feel that God led me there. I’m so glad you read it too.
I am so thankful we can trust the same God who was here from the beginning and will be here until the end.
I have a question about tubal ligations. My husband and I do not believe in birth control, so I have 4 kids ages 4,3,2, (miscarriage), and 7 months. 4 of the 5 pregnancies were rough, and I almosted died with 2 of them. I recently had a tubal ligation, not because I didn’t want any more children, but because I could not risk getting pregnant again, especially so soon. I have multiple medical conditions (brain bleeds, prolapsed bladder, etc.) which I could not receive help for unless I was preventing pregnancy. I, also, have a very unsupportive husband and am fighting post-partum depression. He was not in agreement with me on getting the surgery, and constantly throws it in my face. My question is, “Am I wrong for getting it done”? I prayed (and was led to scriptures & had dreams that it was ok with God)about the decision for a over a year, and sought out council from fellow believers, and I waited until my husband said I could make the appointment. What are your views on this? and why?
Deanna,
There are so many factors that make this a difficult scenario, in addition to the fact that I don’t know you personally, so anything I say here, I say with fear and trepidation and is merely my personal thoughts on my limited information. In and of itself, I don’t think it’s wrong to prevent children for a season when there are imposing health reasons–especially as you mentioned medication you needed to take that was not OK during pregnancy. My general thoughts are that receiving children is a healthy, normal condition; however, sometimes our bodies aren’t healthy and normal and we might have to take those things into consideration. But even there, I think we have to weight carefully and use wisdom and a lot of prayer and counsel. The fact that your husband didn’t approve concerns me, but again, I know what it is to deal with depression with a supportive husband, and I know it sometimes happens that husbands really do not understand all that entails. I can’t that you are “wrong”. But I also can’t speak for your husband. And because what’s done is permanent, there is only room to move forward from here. Reconciling things with your husband is probably a priority above anything else. I hope this helps!
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