Home motherhood/family/parenting Gospel-Powered Parenting: Avoiding a Child-Centered Home

Gospel-Powered Parenting: Avoiding a Child-Centered Home

by Kelly Crawford

I’m really enjoying the book, Gospel-Powered Parenting: How the Gospel Shapes and Transforms Parenting by William Farley.  (Though there are a few points with which I disagree.)

I loved this point he made about avoiding a “child-centered” family, which can be so easy to have when you love those little rascals so much!

“It is important to love your children, but there is a fine line between healthy parental love and child worship.  We know the latter has happened when we begin compromising God’s will for the sake of our children or their activities.

Compromise always point to idolatry.  It displeases God.  He does not like competitors, especially when they are our children.

The symptoms of  “God-centeredness” are numerous.  The first is a willingness to say “no” to a child when it is in the child’s best interest.  A second symptom is a marriage in which Dad and Mom are united before their children, even when they disagree about a parenting direction.  A third symptom of God-centeredness is the willingness to make our marriages more important than our children. (My note:  I think he’s not insinuating that our children “aren’t as important”, but that a focus on marriage will inadvertently benefit our children the most.) A fourth symptom is a willingness to be different.  God-centered homes will be radically different. “

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55 comments

Kim M October 18, 2010 - 4:20 am

Amen to that!

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Terri October 18, 2010 - 5:34 am

What an important message. My husband and I have a date night once a week (we now have olders to watch youngers – nice!) The children used to ask if they could come and we would always tell them, “No, because we love you, you can’t come” and would sometimes follow up with reasons for this (sometimes!) We also have a rule about children sleeping in our bed – NOT allowed (an occasional sick child and they gotta be REALLY sick). This is the marriage bed and it is for us! I have made a big effort to keep our bedroom a beautiful sanctuary for us – clean (not the room to catch all the clutter), fresh sheets, candles, no media! I think this is very important to a happy marriage! Just a thought –

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the cottage child October 18, 2010 - 10:27 am

Well said, Terri – and so important!

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Word Warrior October 18, 2010 - 8:00 am

Love that, Terri!

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I Live in an Antbed October 18, 2010 - 8:06 am

This is such an unexpected temptation for new parents, one many of them never see coming. But, the fruit is so destructive to the family. Thank you for this timely word.

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Amy in AL October 18, 2010 - 8:45 am

Kelly,

As I’ve said here before, Shepherding a Child’s Heart by Tripp has been Our favorite “parenting” book so far. We have recently purchased the book of Matthew Henry’s work regarding the practice and foundation of religion in the family entitled Family Religion: Principles for Raising a Godly Family and also Farley’s book that you are reading. I am going to begin reading Farley’s book this week and because my thoughts on family and raising children seem to be so similar to what I read from you, I am curious about the points that you disagree with in this book. Like I said, I haven’t begun reading it yet. Would you mind sharing with me what you’ve found so far that you don’t agree with?

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Word Warrior October 18, 2010 - 12:17 pm

Amy,

Sure. He suggests that parents place too much emphasis on guarding their children from sinful influences instead of relying on the stronger power of the gospel in their lives which, he puts, “will be so attractive the world holds no allurements for them”.

While I agree that the power of the gospel in our lives IS more powerful than the world’s (“greater is He that is in you”), all I read in Scripture still speaks of “guarding, fleeing and resisting” even the appearance of evil.

If mature Christians are warned to flee temptation, how much more our children who are just beginning their spiritual journey?

Also, his personal experience seemed to oppose his theory. He began the book by stating that his daughter was in rebellion and they feared “losing her”.

So, while I think it’s extremely important for parents to shepherd the heart, depend on the saving grace of Christ to effect change in our children’s lives (instead of focusing on externals which will be transformed by the internal), we also are commanded from Scripture to help them avoid unnecessary temptation. We can be “in the world and not of it”; our children our certainly exposed to sin, I’m not suggesting we hide sin from them. But it is the manner in which they are exposed. Are we in a position to walk alongside them as they encounter it, showing them the truth and deception of sin through the lens of Scripture?

Or do we just toss them out on their own and rely on their “inner spiritual strength” to sustain them? There will be a time for that, but not as little children. (I think of King David with all the strength of heart being in the wrong place, not guarding himself from temptation and succumbing to its allurements.)

Hope I didn’t ramble too much!

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Amy in AL October 18, 2010 - 4:14 pm

Kelly,
Thanks so much for your reply. I’m looking forward to reading this book. Unfortunately, I can relate to the error of focusing too heavily on the “externals” due to not fully understanding the power of the gospel and the Sovereignty of God. But God, in His mercy, has taught me so much in this area through His word. I certainly do not want to swing the other direction into the neglect of externals, though. I firmly agree with you on this. I appreciate your blog so much.

Blessings to you and your family,
Amy

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Amy in AL October 18, 2010 - 8:47 am

Thank you for your time and consideration, Kelly. I sent this before I said thanks!

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Gayle October 18, 2010 - 9:01 am

I have seen families that have walked all the way through using the child-centered approach, and the end result is not pretty.
It is usually a mom who doesn’t know what to do with herself, so she becomes terribly meddlesome once the child/children are married.
A father who feels neglected, thus defeated, which results in him emotionally checking out (at best)…
And the children act like they are entitled (why wouldn’t they, after all?) which ends up playing out very negatively in their own marriage and parenting. It’s a sad state indeed, and obviously not the way God intended it.

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Jennifer October 20, 2010 - 10:46 am

“It is usually a mom who doesn’t know what to do with herself, so she becomes terribly meddlesome once the child/children are married”

Wow, I didn’t know it went that far.

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Susan McCurdy October 18, 2010 - 9:02 am

It would be interesting to know if the author was insinuating that the marriage is more important than the children. Not having the book myself it is hard to conclude. I tend to think he was saying that the marriage is more important and I think I agree with him. I think Scripture backs this up. A man is to leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. Neither, nor both, are to cleave to the children (as wonderful as they are!). Too many moms forget their primary human relationship is their husband and not their children. This sets up working room for the enemy and will destroy the whole family. Thanks for the good reminders!

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Amy October 18, 2010 - 12:56 pm

I believe he was, Susan. I agree. Marriage is a covenant, a promise that 2 people make to and before God. Children are gifts from God.

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the cottage child October 18, 2010 - 10:25 am

Brilliant point – it IS such a fine line, made more difficult by a child-centered culture (bent on keeping people childish).

What is really sad is to watch parents who have worked very hard and lived disciplined lives in the Lord themselves to not teach that behavior to their children. I can so appreciate the urge to give better than what we experienced to our children, even spoil them a bit. But to think that all the benefits the parents have provided will be squandered – or at the very least undervalued – because the spiritual elements of the parents initial successes are never cultivated. It’s a shame that the wrong legacy is pursued.

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Alison October 18, 2010 - 11:20 am

Great post. I definitely want to have a God-centered home and be able to focus on my marriage, too. I was wondering if you could give some practical advice/examples for mothers with younger children. My children are two and under. While I certainly agree with and implement Biblical training, discipline, etc., how can you keep a home from being child-centered when the little ones are so small? Obviously, everything in my life seems to be centered on them right now since they are so young and need Mama to take care of them. Or is that more understandable in this season with very young ones? Some wisdom in this area would be much appreciated.

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Claudia October 18, 2010 - 12:12 pm

Great post, but did you mean to type “Avoiding a Child-Centered HOME”? 😉

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Word Warrior October 18, 2010 - 12:23 pm

Cracking up. Sometimes I miss the most obvious goofs.

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Amy October 18, 2010 - 12:51 pm

I have been reading that book too and highly recommend it!

How far are you into this book, Kelly? I am in chapter 7 – loving that chapter!

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Kelly L October 18, 2010 - 12:52 pm

Great points. We have one child, so the temptation is there to make her the focus of everything. The great saving grace is we ask God before we do anything with her. HE makes sure we cannot go crazy. I am actually proud when people who have met her are surprised she is an only child because she is generous and other centered. We’d like to take the credit, but God definitely has done a good work in her!

Thanks for the great reminders, I’m remembering to evaluate my life with the list!

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jt October 18, 2010 - 1:07 pm

We definitly live in a world that is centered around the kids and trying to give them everything they want.We teach our kids that our relationship with God is the most important thing in life,if we don’t have that everything else in our life will fall apart.We also let our kids know that our relationship as husband and wife is very important.Our room is also off limits to them,we try to go on a date once a month,and we have strict in bed by 8:00 so mom and dad can have some alone time every night.I try to instill in my kids that thinking about others is more important than thinking about themselves.I also teach them that because of our sin nature that the process of dying to our wants and needs is painful and can only be done through God’s strength.

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Jennifer October 20, 2010 - 10:48 am

“We definitly live in a world that is centered around the kids and trying to give them everything they want”

Definitely sometimes, like that horrific “Sour Sixteen” non-reality show.

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Natasha October 18, 2010 - 3:00 pm

“a focus on marriage will inadvertently benefit our children the most.”

God is a God of order, and I love how he ordered the family. It works!

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Mrs. B October 18, 2010 - 11:18 pm

Hi Kelly!
Wonderful message, it really is easy for us to fall into the child-centered trap. Cottage child’s obervation that it’s because the culture wants to remain “childish” is very true.

I was wondering, what do you think about Reb Bradley’s ministry in this area? The Homeschool Channel is airing his “Biblical Insights Into Child Training” series right now. It seems to parallel the writings of Fugate, Tripp, etc.

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Natasha October 19, 2010 - 8:07 am

Thanks Mrs.B for the Reb Bradleys information, i checked out his website and can’t wait to read some of his free bible studies on raising children!

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Margaret October 19, 2010 - 10:12 am

I think interpretation of this belief can be either good or bad. Child-centeredness is one extreme. Self or parent-centeredness is the other.

I like to think of us as God-centered, and family-centered. When we have babies, the fact is a lot of life does center around them because they have the biggest needs and the least ability to meet their own needs. Some people view things like extended breastfeeding, co-sleeping, babywearing, etc as “child-centered” and “spoiling”. I don’t. In fact, we’ve done that with all three of our children and they are highly independant, very obedient, and not at all selfish or bratty.

As they grow, they grow out of those urgent needs, and into participating with the family. Dh and I do not do “date night” for reasons of culture and preference. But we do make our room *ours* once a child is past a certain age, and we make sure that staying connected to each other is important. That might mean putting the kids to bed a little early, or me getting up with dh in the early hours to get his breakfast and see him off to work with a kiss. When the whole family is together, the kids know not to interrupt conversations, or demand attention when it’s clear attention is needed elsewhere. We teach the children that their first obligation is always to God, and through many other avenues they learn that being self-serving is damaging to themselves and others.

That is how I percieve avoidance of being child-centered.

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Mrs. S October 19, 2010 - 10:38 am

Yes Margaret. We make many of the same parenting choices you do.

I have heard advice from Christians to make sure your baby knows when it is born that he is not the center of the universe but you and your husband are. What?! The home is to be Christ-centered and when you have children there will be a lot of dying to yourself and a change in the marriage relationship. I heartily agree that we do need to keep our marriages a priority and make our husbands feel special for all reasons others have stated. Good post Kelly 🙂

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Alison October 19, 2010 - 12:49 pm

Thank you so much for writing this! I, too, practice attachment-style parenting and my children are still very young, so my life does center around them since I must meet their needs. Plus, if you are breastfeeding, etc., that will take up so much of your time. I liked the way you described everything.

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Margaret October 19, 2010 - 2:03 pm

So nice to get agreeable comments. :p

I think what has allowed us to use ‘attachment parenting’ without becoming child-centered is a sense of balance. There are, again on the extreme, people (mothers seem to tend towards this more, though men can do it too) who not only attend to their child’s needs but feel that having a baby is a valid excuse to ignore their marital relationship completely–rejecting all physical and emotional attempts to connect because of being “touched out” or “worn out” or something similar. This is also problematic.

It’s hard with little ones, harder with multiple little ones. There is definitely a period of time where survival mode is all you can manage, BUT, keeping the marriage relationship going has to be part of survival mode. It’s so important to keep that relationship together, for us and for the kids.

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Katie Grace October 19, 2010 - 2:06 pm

I find myself in the same situation, having a 2 1/2 year old, a 16 month old and expecting. My children are unable to really do anything for themselves and require constant attention. It is exhausting although abundantly rewarding. A few things that I have done to “tend” to my marriage are as follows:
1. I asked my hubby what things that I did for him that he really would hate to for me not to do. He gave me only 3 things and they were not what I expected. He loves that I make one of his favorite meals and/or desserts once a week, that I keep the bed made, and that I coordinated his clothing for him (he’s colorblind). Those were the things that really made him feel like I was meeting his needs! I now try and do these things even if I am unable to do other things.
2. We try to have a “date night” once a month. Sometimes, we just come back home and snuggle on the sofa and watch a movie in the quiet with no interruptions.
3. We keep the children out of our bed. My hubby and I were both raised this way and have continued this with our children. The babies stay in the craddle next to me until the age or 6 to 8 months and then move to their own crib. If someone is sick or in need of mommy or daddy, we sit in the chair in the bedroom or move to the den. We share night time duties since we have a child that sleeps a lot less than normal.
4. I also recently asked him what 5 things in the house he really felt needed to be clean for him to feel the house is clean. This was because I got so behind during the first trimester of this pregnancy. He gave me 5 things that said “clean house” to him. I try and keep these simple things done regularly.

Honestly, my hubby is a simple man. I can fix him a pb&j for supper because I’m too nauseous to cook and he is thrilled that he is getting his favorite sandwich! I try to never act frustrated if he needs me to listen (even when it’s crazy here), spend my time alone with the children giving them the attention they need from mommy, and try and do as much of the work around here as possible since hubby works 70+ hours a week.

If the children are awake, then they require attention. That is the nature of small children. If he is here and not working, his focus is on them. He will watch his favorite football team on tv and dress dolls at the same time. If I need his help, I ask. If there is something unusual that needs to be done (ex: computer printer is not working correctly or tub is draining slowly), I keep a “honey-do” list on the fridge. If he has an extra hour before bed then he’ll look at the list and tackle a thing or two.

I think if we keep the correct perspective then our marriages can thrive even with small children. We know this is just for a season. We had 10 years of marriage before children and we will hopefully have years more once they are grown. We try and be honest with each other about our needs and communicate those in a non-angry way. I know things will soon change again with the addition of another little one (our first boy) and our marriage will have to adapt again.

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Kelly L October 19, 2010 - 3:17 pm

Katie Grace,
I appreciated reading your comment. Sometimes my husband will ask me to come in the living room and sit with him and have a glass of wine while our daughter watches a movie or reads in the family room. I always say OK, but only for a little while because I don’t like her being alone when she is in pain (she is in the middle, or hopefully the end, of a second round of excruciating growing pain that Advil and Alleve cannot take away. So I have some guilt there.) But your comment helped me to remember she has me all day, and he only sometimes needs time alone and I should be happy to give it, not riddled with guilt that is irrational.
My husband is simple too, never “requiring” much to feel loved or appreciated (happy with a sandwich for dinner too! How blessed are we!). I just realized I take advantage of his great love for me. Because he is so interested in fulfilling MY needs and feelings, I put my feelings first too, instead of reciprocating and treating him with deference.
Well, one more reason I am “awesome”, just another thing to fix….

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Lori October 19, 2010 - 3:56 pm

Dear Kelly,
I am so sorry for your daughter’s pain. When I was a girl, from about 7-9ish, I suffered severe, sometimes debilitating pain. Some people chalked it up to growing pain (which is why I write this, it triggered my memory), and my mom took me to 2 or 3 different types o doctors, but no help. It was a chiropractor who was able to diagnose my problem, and w/ the first treatment my pain drastically subsided. My injury had grown with me for a long time so it took a few months of visits to fully heal, but those pains never came back. If you are already taking her to a chiropractor, it might be time to find a new one. I’ve relied on chiropractors to help me ever since then when I get injured, and I will say that some are better than others, though most I’ve been to were good. There was one who barely helped me at all, but just that one.

Please don’t take this comment as any type of remark about medical attentiveness, it was just an observation. Some people haven’t discovered the wonderful healing that chiropractors can offer, and sometimes, occasionally can stay too long w/ an unhelpful one (I did that myself, w/ that one). That’s all. Hope she gets feeling well soon, that must be so difficult.

Lori October 19, 2010 - 3:59 pm

I meant, “it was just an observation from my own life” not an observation about yours!

Kelly L October 19, 2010 - 6:03 pm

LOL Lori! I have way to little drama to think you meant anything towards me. High school was years ago! I appreciate any advice and insight! I used to work for a kinesiologist and reflexologist as well as a chiro, and know how beneficial they can be (especially if they are Christians and not into the new age crud). I was praying and led to go to an herb store (talk about new agey) and got her some coral calcium and yellowdock for iron. I am hoping it helps. I might go to my chiro with her if does not lessen up, I hadn’t even thought of it being in the middle of it and all.
I appreciate your sympathy and trying to help!
<3

Kelly L October 19, 2010 - 7:28 pm

“to little” should read too little. I be a homeschools mom!

Lori October 19, 2010 - 8:04 pm

Haha! Thanks for taking it in the spirit it was meant. I took coral calcium and yellow dock during my first pregnancy, and they are both wonderful.

Jennifer October 20, 2010 - 10:57 am

Very true, the other extreme is being self-centered.

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LucyT October 19, 2010 - 11:01 am

This is off subject but I have a question abouy catechism.It is the shorter catechism you wrote about at LAF,Kelly.I was reading through the questions and number 95 states that “infants of such as are members of the visible church are to be baptized.”Where is this backed up in scripture?I have attended a christian church all my life and they teach against baptizing babies also my child who is now 8 has wanted to be baptized for over a year now and the church belives he is to young so I am wondering if I should go elsewhere or have my husband baptize him?If you want to delete this because it is to personal I understand.I would really like to here your thoughts or others especially any that could be backed up biblicaly.Thank you

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Lori October 19, 2010 - 11:35 am

Dear Lucy – I realize that you did not address me, but perhaps you’ll allow me to explain.

1. Baptism is the new covenant, the replacement for circumcision, which was the Abrahamic Covenant. Circumcision was the parent making the covenant on the child’s behalf. Just so baptism is the covenant on the child’s behalf. Because we are Abraham’s seed. That’s where the infant covenantal sign comes from – Abraham. The only thing that has changed is that the sign has moved from blood/death to water/life (because the blood sacrifice has already occured), and it is for male and female both.

2. We know that when the Jailer and Lydia became Christians, they were baptized with their whole households. They accepted the terms of the covenant on behalf of their households – spouse (in case of jailer, not likely Lydia – probably a widow from my take), children, dependents, etc. I’ve heard the argument that they had probably led they households to Christ first – but that’s illogical as it’s an argument from silence, and besides, even if that were the case (big if), then why didn’t God see it fitting to include that into the acount? Even if it’s true, it’s totally beside the point.

3.Children of believers are to be assumed to be in the covenant. See Psalm 22:9 & 10; also when David and Bathsheba’s first child was taken by God in punishment, David looks forward to seeing him in Heaven; also we know that John the Baptist recognized his Lord’s presence when he was still unborn – the Holy Spirit came to him in the womb. Not that there’s any guarantee (you must disciple you child according to the Scripture), but you don’t start off by assuming they’re pagans. That’s essentially what a parent does by withholding the sacraments from a child until a formal profession of faith. You’re saying in your action of withholding, “You’re not a child of the covenant, not yet.” You’re (I say “you” generally, not personally) treating them not as covenant children, because they actually are not under the sign of the covenant, they just aren’t. You’re effectively saying that they are, rather, pagans to be evangelized.

However, whether or not you can agree with this at this time, your church absolutely must baptize your son. He is a professing beleiver. It is not just unscriptural,but anti-Scripture to deny the sign of the covenant to a professing believer. You don’t make a new convert go through a testing period for a few months, or years do you? No, you get baptized as soon as possible (see, for example, Acts 2:41, Acts 8:12). If you have not been baptzed before I must stress. There is only one baptism for the remission of sins. I repeat, your church has absolutely no Scriptural basis for withholding of baptism, and in fact are sinning against your son. They are also saying that you have to earn your way into the family of God. By age, apparently.

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved” Mark 16:16

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LucyT October 19, 2010 - 3:08 pm

Thank you for awnsering my question.I told my little guy that I would make sure he got baptized.He put his head down and started crying and said thank you.I am crying just writing this and knowing how grieved he has been over this issue.

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Natasha October 20, 2010 - 8:04 am

Wow thank you so much for that, I never thought of it that way. This is something my husband and I are going to have to discuss.

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Jennifer October 20, 2010 - 10:17 am

I’m so glad your son’s heart is into this, Lucy 🙂

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jt October 19, 2010 - 1:48 pm

Dear Lucy,
First of all we are all born sinners and unsaved regardless if our parents are saved or not Psalms51:5 Behold I was brought forth in iniquity,and in my sin my mother concieved me.
Second if your son truly believed he was a sinner and repented of his sins and asked God to be the Lord and Savior of his life your church should baptize him.
Third there is no saving power in baptism if there was we would be saved through something we could do.Ephesians2:8&9For by grace you have been saved through faith,and that not of yourselves;it is the gift of God,not of works,lest anyone should boast.
Lastly baptism is not a covenant it is a symbol of death to our old sinful self and new life in Christ.Baptism should be done after a person has truly been saved to symbolize to the world that they have died to their old sinful self and are alive in Christ.

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Lori October 19, 2010 - 2:20 pm

JT – it appears that you might have been making an attempt to address my comment to Lucy. Whether or not, I’ll say…

1. No one has stated that children are born saved.

2. Jesus said that you must believe and be baptized to be saved. No, baptism alone does not save you, that is certain. But Jesus said that you must believe AND be baptized to be saved. You can’t just gloss over that and still be an honest person. Mark 16:16 is perfectly compatible w/ Eph 2: 8,9

3. Is baptism a Covenant?

Gen 17:9 “Then God said to Abraham, ‘As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.'” “This” referring to circumcision, as per v. 10.

Acts 7:8: “Then he gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision.”

Are we believers the descendents of Abraham? Yes. (Gal 3:29)

It was because of his *faith* that Abraham was declared righteous (Rom 4:9), and yet God absolutely required him to be circumcized – put under the mark of the covenant – and all his decendants. Which we are. But how does that translate under the New Covenant, after the sacrifice of Christ? By baptism now, not circumcism. We are baptized into Christ (Gal 3:27), and as such are descendents of Abraham (Gal 3:29). We no longer need circumcision as a sign of being members in Christ, and in His family, but we must have the sign on us – which is now baptism.

There is *nothing* in Scripture to suggest that God intended an end to His ordained practice of putting the mark of the covenant on an infant. To say that professing believers MUST be baptized is *not* saying that the infant children of baptized believers must NOT be baptized. This is simple logic.

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LucyT October 19, 2010 - 11:46 pm

Thank you for taking the time to awnser my question.

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LucyT October 19, 2010 - 11:49 pm

OOPS!! I was trying to also thank you J.T. but I replied to the wrong comment.

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Krissa October 19, 2010 - 5:29 pm

Kelly L, I don’t want to interfere in your parenting decisions. But given my medical background, I have to ask if a doctor has diagnosed your daughter’s growing pains. There is also the possibility that your daughter has juvenile arthritis, especially if over the counter medication is not working. If you have not done so, I urge you to take her to a specialist, no matter the cost!

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Kelly L October 19, 2010 - 6:13 pm

Krissa, thanks. She has been to a ped, an endocronoliogist (sp), had x-rays and 7 tubes of blood drawn to test for medical indicators as well as to honor my request to check for vitamin/mineral deficiencies. There are no indications of arthritis. The only test they did not do for arthritis is the scan at the back of the eye, but it does not seem warranted since the ANA in the blood was in the normal range and the x-rays were all normal. Her results were sent to a specialist, too. We have good insurance, but even if not, i’d spare no expense.

I do appreciate the advice, if there is anything I miss, I’d like to be told!
<3

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Linda October 19, 2010 - 6:56 pm

Kelly, I have a daughter who gets severe cramps in her legs and seems to feel pain more than some of us. The chiropractor helps some, but we also take her to a homeopath which is very helpful. Without going into the background of how homeopathy works, the homeopath told us her body isn’t properly absorbing the minerals she is taking in (and she eats the way the other 4 eat). When her pain reoccurs (typically under stress or during or after a growth spurt) we are able to give her a remedy that helps her body assimilate the minerals (including calcium) that she needs. Occasionally, the remedy only works for short term and at that point we take her back for a health review and may need a more constitutional (whole health) remedy. This has been a huge help for her and for us.
More food for thought! ~Linda

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Kelly L October 19, 2010 - 7:27 pm

Thanks, Linda. For now, I believe the Lord told me to go get these things (coral calcium and yellowdock root). We ask God before we do anything (well, almost, we are still not perfect) and I like to have more things to ask Him. Praise the Lord He is such a good, faithful Father that He never tires of my asking!!!!

I am kinda a natural first freak, so I appreciate homeopathy as well as chiro’s. It has always been my belief that just as God gave us the spiritual remedy for our sinful nature( Christ) He has given us the physical remedies for our sin too. (simplifies of what I believe, but I hate taking all of Kelly’s blog up!

I appreciate you taking the time to let me know what has worked for you. <3

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LucyT October 19, 2010 - 11:54 pm

OK that time my reply just went to the wrong place.I new I didn’t like this lay out.LOL.Thank you to the both of you.

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Natasha October 20, 2010 - 10:22 am

Wow, Lori Thank you so much. I just read what you wrote to my husband and we it all just makes sense. No One has ever put it to us like that. I went form believing infants must be baptized, to then going to another church and believing that you wait to be baptized. Both sides made sense at the time.

Thank you so much, my husband and I are going to dive into this tonight and look at all those scriptures you wrote.

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Lori October 20, 2010 - 11:05 am

Dear Natasha,
thank you for your kind words. I’m very glad you found my explanation clear and helpful. I just thought I’d add that the debate in Galatians 3 over baptism wasn’t addressing infant vs. professing baptism: it was addressing what the the sign of the covenant is under the new covenant, after Christ’s resurrection.

(This is what I really wanted to point out:) God always allowed conversion to Him, in Judaism as well as Christianity. But new converts had to take the mark of the coventant, the men and all males in their household under them. As you can imagine, that was daunting when you were talking about circumcision! Anyhow, that’s why the Judaizers were pushing for the newly converted Galatians to be circumcized: because that was what had always been done – if you weren’t born into a convenent family and circumcized as an infant, you had to do it as soon as you converted. What Paul is saying is not “professing covenant sign is replacing infant covenenant sign” because there had always been the professing covenant sign, as well as infant covenant sign – that hasn’t changed. He was saying that the new covenant sign is baptism, and the need for circumsision is done. One coventant, one sign.

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Jennifer October 20, 2010 - 11:09 am

I have to say I’m very glad Paul discouraged mandatory circumcision. He was quite blunt about it too; this just displays the awesome aspect of Christ’s new Covenant.

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Cyril Oviedo February 20, 2012 - 4:28 am

only could quit classes and also function for you to smoke as well as workout throughout the day, we would.

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facialreflex October 27, 2013 - 4:22 pm Reply

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