“Don’t be afraid to say, “This is my starting point…this truth is a good thing.”
Why do I talk about women’s roles? Education? Submission? Children? It has nothing to do with wanting to interfere in others’ lives. It has everything to do with wanting to help make your lives better.
I blog for one reason…to present what I believe God has given Christians as a guideline for living–truth that will make us free and shine as lights around us. But we have to recognize that truth as our starting point.
Could I compare myself to Dave Ramsey? He speaks emphatically (with no apologies) about debt and money. He’s even willing to hurt people’s feelings out of his concern for their freedom. He has “been there and got the t-shirt”, and he wants to help others avoid the same pitfalls.
And people have generally accepted a universal truth that it is *good* to use money wisely, and that debt carries problems, even if they are not living according to that principle.
These principles are addressed in Scripture, though they are not hard and fast “thou shalt nots“. Still, regardless of the personal choices we make with our finances, we still all pretty much agree that there is an “ideal” involving finances, and that ideal is always a good starting point, no matter where we are. I can be (and have been) up to my eyeballs in debt and still acknowledge that being debt free is the ideal. Believing that may not change where I am at that moment, but it moves me toward that ideal goal.
This is how I view marriage, children, the role of women, education, etc. I think the Bible has laid forth principles–some straightforward, others less so. But I believe we can find direction for every area of life there. And I think these principles form ideals that we need to recognize as “a good thing”, a starting point for our thinking.
So often we try to formulate “truth” around what we want it to be, or what makes us feel better about where we are. Is there absolute truth? If so, where does it come from? Who determines it? How much is left up to my own determination? These are questions we must seriously ask.
Think of exercise and healthy eating. I can either recognize that it is better to exercise and eat healthy as my starting point for life choices–regardless of whether or not I choose it, or I can ignore evidence of that truth to feel better about my lack of discipline and poor eating choices.
I’d much rather hear someone say, “I am too lazy to walk and too apathetic to cut back on the french fries; I’ll probably die early”...than “I don’t believe that garbage about exercise being good for you, and french fries being bad…if that works for you, fine. But it doesn’t apply to me.” Obviously, we all differ somewhat on methods of health, but we still agree that health should be pursued for the most optimal life.
Do you get my point? I don’t have any desire to make people feel condemned or angry; I am walking through this life, or limping, rather, in daily need of repentance. I haven’t “arrived” any more than you; I’m not better, more godly or more spiritual. (Just ask my family and closest friends if you have any doubts 😉
I speak ONLY because I believe there is truth that brings healing and freedom to families. And I want that healing and freedom for my family and yours! I have an intense concern for women and their families. That’s all. Whether you are “there” or not, matters less than where your starting point is. Our thinking determines our direction.
In His sovereignty He gives us freedom, but with boundaries. He gives us choices and yet tells us what is best for us. Let’s be careful, as Christians, not to buy into the humanism of our culture (truth is what I say it is). We do have a guide. We were given the blueprint for joyful lives and peaceful families. Don’t be afraid to say, “This is my starting point…this truth is a good thing.”
20 comments
Kelly I APPRECIATE the fact that you say hard things.
It makes me think of Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Thank you Kelly for this post. You summed this up so well.
Keep speaking, sister. I also greatly appreciate the wisdom you have from your own experiences. They speak many words to my own experiences and things I know to be good and true. You are greatly encouraging to me, as I attempt to become that woman I yearn to be and that I truly believe God wants to make me. Not everyone will make the mark you are trying to make in the lives of others. Keep on keeping on, your exhortations are a blessing to so many. I love you, sister. Thank you.
Kim M,
I love that you referenced Romans 10. I have recently studied that passage after hearing Dr. David Platt teach (Nov 9 http://www.brookhills.org) about how God’s plan is to use all of us as instruments to tell about salvation through Jesus. Christ sends followers, followers preach, people hear, hearers believe, believers call, and those who call are saved. There shouldn’t be a breakdown in there but sometimes followers don’t preach/teach and turn a deaf ear to others. We are ALL called to missions. Christ commands His church to make the Gospel known in all the nations and tell others that God has made a way of salvation for all of us through the death of His son on the cross. Thank you, Kelly, for “speaking” the truth! You are a cyber missionary! 🙂
rixja
Kelly:
I must admit that sometimes, the topics that you discuss on this blog, “ruffle my feathers,” but it’s during those times where I do the most thinking and discovering.
I think I have said this to you before, but I think that you have a true gift to compose thoughts and beliefs. Although there are some who come here “angry and agitated,” there are many more who come here inspired and challenged.
Thank you for your courage to continue to write on this blog the things that are difficult. I appreciate your honesty and straight forwardness. By the grace of God, may you continue to encourage individuals in “Blog Land.”
It does take courage to say what God has placed on your heart.
Like trees in an orchard, believers need to be properly pruned in order to be able to bear fruit. It can hurt. Sometimes a lot. But it is necessary.
We all need to hear things that make us think and double check our hearts before God and His standard of truth.
Interaction with other Christians is one of the methods God uses in order to help trim away the dead wood so we can bear abundant fruit in Him.
We need people in the body who are not afraid to speak of the “hard issues”.
Heather
You guys have some great insight! I love your willingness to grow!
In His sovereignty He gives us freedom, but with boundaries. He gives us choices and yet tells us what is best for us.
Are you sure you are a Calvinist? LOL just kidding…don’t take that personally. But that statement, it’s really very Arminian in a sense.
We may disagree on the nature of the truth, but what we agree on is that the truth is the answer. Ultimately, Jesus is the Truth. In seeking after Christ, we will find and know Him (and, consequently, the Truth).
Obviously, we all differ somewhat on methods of health, but we still agree that health should be pursued for the most optimal life.
Similarly, we all (at least in the Christian world) agree that truth and the Word of God are important guides for living, but differ somewhat in how we perceive truth and the Word of God.
When you read the Bible, you see wifely submission; I see mutual submission. You see women working only at home; but I see women occasionally working and ministering to the glory of God, and not always in particularly motherly or wifely or “feminine” or home-oriented ways.
You see that the Lord is pro-child and pro-family, and I agree. I believe the Lord intends most families to be quite a bit larger than they are these day. But whereas I think there are cases when a woman may permissibly use methods to prevent conception (particularly in cases where having more children would cause a man not to support his family properly, and thus to be worse than an unbeliever 1 Tim 5:8), you do not (presumably because you don’t believe that the quiverfull lifestyle can ever lead to the grave sin of non-provision because God will supply). I think certain methods of birth control can be good stewardship of scarce resources, but if I understand you correctly, you think that BC is mostly a result of selfishness. For what it’s worth, I agree that in many cases it is selfishness, but in some cases I believe it can be unselfishness (particularly when a family would like to grow further but cannot due to serious reasons, be they medical or financial).
It is possible, as I explained to a friend who couldn’t understand why I didn’t vote for Mr. Obama, to observe the same facts and come to quite different conclusions. All we can do is live the Word of God to the best of our abilities, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I believe both you and I are doing that, albeit in different ways.
There is nothing wrong with you using your blog as a platform for what you believe the Word of God teaches. I encourage you to continue, even though we don’t always agree, especially because you are so good about allowing others to state their opinions in the comments. You are not interested in being a self-righteous, controlling demagogue. You just want the truth to win out, like I do. God bless you for seeking it out and trying to outline principles you glean from the Word. You may not always be correct (none of us are), but the trying is the important part. By spending so much time and space addressing these issues, you are at the very least sending a strong message that what God tells us in the Bible is vitally important. I can’t help but commend you for that.
Hope you had a blessed Thanksgiving with much for which to be thankful! God is so good!
lazarquita,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply…I agree there is some room for differing interpretation (as implied in my post), though I think we must be careful to distinguish between “personal interpretation” and truth. That’s what we must all be vigilant to guard.
And as is my nature 😉 I hope you’ll give me the liberty to clarify something you said for those reading…
“I think there are cases when a woman may permissibly use methods to prevent conception (particularly in cases where having more children would cause a man not to support his family properly, and thus to be worse than an unbeliever 1 Tim 5:8)”
It is important to understand that a man being an infidel for not providing for his family is his *unwillingness* to provide–his laziness or refusal to work.
A man with a large family who is working hard looks to God for provision beyond the honest, hard-working effort he is expected to put forth (“Give us this day our daily bread”…”I know you have need of these things” [daily provisions])
While a couple may choose to limit the size of their family for some reason, it is incorrect to say a man would be an infidel for having children. True belief in God’s sovereignty recognizes that “He provides for His own”, including *His* children…those provisions may not be beyond food and clothing, but we believe His promises.
Again, it’s having our thinking right at “the starting point” that I think is important.
Rixja, Oh so true!
Another BC point..(Just when I think I’ve made all my *points*, I keep having new ones 😉
As the earlier commenter to which I replied brought up, I think my biggest hang up with the church’s attitude toward BC is that its availability has moved from “option” to “expectation”.
While God may allow a couple to choose bc, it should never be taught that He would expect it. Such philosophy stems from a perspective that we are in control of life, and not God, that our reproductive systems are flawed and must therefore be “fixed”, and that God didn’t really know what He was doing. It is the assumption that God “messed up” and needs help in the area of child-bearing.
When we believe God expects us to interfere, we expect it of others and the couple accepting children as God gives them are deemed incompetent and irresponsible.
Kelly, with all due respect, I’m sitting here with my Greek New Testament reading 1 Timothy and I can’t really find anything to substantiate a different reading from the plain meaning of the verse. It doesn’t say, if a man is lazy and does not want to provide. It says, if a man DOES NOT provide (presumably regardless of the reasons he doesn’t provide).
On a different note, I think we are addressing two separate, related issues here.
The first is whether or not using birth control is ever acceptable before God for any reason. Based on what you have said, I think we both agree that it can be acceptable, depending on the circumstances, and that the reasons for doing so should be unselfish and in line with the Word of God and the Spirit’s leading. However, birth control should not be the “default position,” but rather a decision arrived at in a prayerful and serious fashion. Also, it should not be something that is expected of us under any circumstances.
The second is whether or not churches or Christians should behold large families unfavorably. Here, too, we agree. It is no one’s business but yours what you do with your body and your family.
However, I’d add that you shouldn’t necessarily expect to be applauded for your choices. Not that YOU do particularly, but there are some families in our congregation who expect to be praised for their ginormous families. While I love their families as much as anyone else’s, I don’t think they really deserve a standing ovation for it or anything. They are doing what the Lord has led them to do, just as I am. I surely don’t expect them to applaud me for trying to get pregnant for almost three years and failing miserably.
BUT they don’t deserve to be ridiculed either, any more than I do. One particular lady asked me one Sunday morning when I was going to give God Lordship over my womb, with a disapproving glance at my (non-pregnant) belly. Things like this HURT. Not only was she pointing out my infertility in a completely graceless way, she was also simultaneously accusing me of holding back God’s Lordship in my life! Talk about a double whammy.
I love the large families in our church. We have the one really-odd-duck family (every church has one), but the others have such a lovely sense of teamwork and family and obedience and service over self…how could you not love that? Babies are a blessing, children are a blessing, parents are a blessing. It’s beautiful. But I love the other families in the church with only a few children. Some of them, I know their stories, how hard they had to fight to get those two or three kids. Others, I don’t know why their families are very small, and it’s not my business to ask.
Whatever a couple’s choices are in how many children to have, they are private, personal choices, and unless they are motivated by selfishness (whether that’s not wanting more because of having to care for them or wanting more so you have less chores to do or whatever), we should pretty much stay out of other people’s reproductive lives (as long as nobody’s killing anybody). That means not looking down your nose at very large families who care well for their children, and it also means showing some grace to couples who have no or very few children, because you never know somebody’s story. And, of course, you’ve never been judgmental about this stuff, but I was just pointing out that church people are nosy and opinionated and loud sometimes, and they have no dearth of unhelpful opinions for anyone, large family or small. So you’re not alone.
Concerning the passage in 1 Timothy:
There is a context here that is important, IMO. Please note verse 4 in particular.
1Ti 5:3 Honor widows who are widows indeed.
1Ti 5:4 But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to be godly to their own house, and give back to their forebears what is due them; for that is good and pleasing before God.
1Ti 5:5 But she being really a widow, and having been left alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day.
1Ti 5:6 But she who lives in self-pleasure has died while living.
1Ti 5:7 And command these things so that they may be blameless.
1Ti 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially his family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an infidel.
Paul is speaking specifically about the care of older female relatives by their children and grandchildren. The subject is about the descendants thankfully giving BACK as our parents age.
Widows with children should be able to rely on their blood- relatives to care for them as they age.
Although the concept of caring for one’s children can be supported by verse 8, it isn’t specifically what Paul was talking about.
There is also no mention of how well to-do the relatives are. The assumption is made, I believe, that God will provide the means to care but we people must be willing to obey and DO the caring. Verse 5, I think supports this as it speaks of the widow who is “alone” leaning solely on God for the means to support herself.
Just my perspective.
Heather
Heather – You have a point about context. However, with regard to context, I fail to see how a man could fail to take care of a widow “of his household.” Presumably, since a man leaves his family and cleaves to his wife, if his father died, his mother would be of course a widow but would not be “of his household.” If the man himself died, he could not of course be expected to care for his own widow after his death. The verse says “especially those of his household,” so I stand by my interpretation.
However, in the end it’s unimportant whether the verse means your wife, your children, or your widowed mother. If you don’t provide for them, you are worse than an infidel. If having a large number of children makes it less likely you’ll be able to fulfill these obligations that are set out in Scripture far more clearly than any about birth control, you should perhaps give serious thought to the matter.
My point is that it’s possible for a couple to come to the prayerful conclusion that some means of birth control, whether that’s pills or condoms or NFP, might be an acceptable route for a time, and that the use of birth control is not always wrong. That’s all I was saying. 🙂 I certainly wasn’t criticizing any specific couple or anything, just laying out a basic principle as an example of a situation in which a couple might prayerfully consider child spacing or birth control.
Backing up again–expanding this specific passage to overall context, Paul is saying how to determine if a widow is actually truly destitute and in need of the services of the CHURCH to be supporting her.
Respectfully, I have to say that marriage does not completely sever the original family ties–but rather changes the relationship dynamic. A married man has his own newly formed family(his wife and children) as a priority, yes.
But being married does not mean a man no longer needs to be willing to help other family members which are outside of that specific union/group.
Some translations will state “house” or “household”, and others “immediate family”. But that is after Paul says “anyone who does not care for his own relatives” After he says this, then he specifies “Especially his immediate family”
My thought was just that it might be a bit of a stretch to try to apply verse 4 to the issue of birth control and whose business it is of how many children one has.
Heather
lazarquita,
These are good discussions, forcing us to “divide the word of truth”.
You said,
“If having a large number of children makes it less likely you’ll be able to fulfill these obligations that are set out in Scripture far more clearly than any about birth control, you should perhaps give serious thought to the matter.”
To me this way oversteps the soveriegnty of God. We aren’t able to see ahead…a man with two children could be injured and not able to provide, but that doesn’t make him an infidel. A man with 12 children may be “poor” by the world’s standards, and yet put food on his table. (I am sure I’ve never heard of anyone in this country starving because he had too many children.)
Then what are we left to do with verses like, “Why do you worry about what you will eat, or what you will wear…”?
How do we define “taking care” of one’s family? Again, I still believe the Scripture is clear that he who “does not” provide refers to him who “refuses” to provide–it wouldn’t even make sense any other way. You would be open to manipulating everything under that pretense (i.e. “I had to steal to keep from being an infidel”…etc.)
As far as “clear” principles in Scripture regarding birth control…I would contend that a positive command speaks a negative command by default, and THAT is worth serious consideration 😉 (Be fruitful and multiply.)
Heather–great points in your comment that carries a lot of consideration of what the church has lost. It was customary in Bible times that if a family–even one with a husband–struggled, those who had “extra” were encouraged to share the burden of those struggling families. (This is NOT socialism, btw 😉 for those ready to argue.)
That practice is a far cry from our current–“you made your bed, lie in it” mentality as it relates to hardship among large families. I just don’t see anywhere in Scripture where God expected a family to limit children due to financial hardship.
I LOVE this reminder from Exodus:
“But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel.”
AND, God “blessed” the midwives 😉 because they feared Him.
Hi Kelly,
I really do like your writing style. You are blessed with a gift of writing in a pretty clear and concise manner, unlike myself. My problem therein lies with my inability to use patience when i write/type….argh. The more I read,open-mindedly, I feel like I am possibly understanding what you are attempting to say.
I differ somewhat in that I do not see many people walking around these days claiming the likes of this statment:
***So often we try to formulate “truth” around what we want it to be, or what makes us feel better about where we are.***
People are walking one day at a time. I dont think there is as much ‘deliberate’ closing of the eyes to truth.as there is uncertainty, confusion, and inability to discern what is absolute truth, someone else’s personalized truth, and what is *my* individually prescribed truth. Sure there are some people who are blinded and think there way is the right way…or they might SAY that, but deep inside when they are all alone, that isnt the truth of what they think in their heart. People are scared, angry, and developing. I try to respect others paths, where they are at, without determining that they must be following their ‘own truth’. Many people I have talked with-when theya re belligerant in their philosophies, often have had parents or elders or authoritarian figures in life impose their beliefs upon them, so today those who were victims will emphatically protest, wanting to find their own way, at their own pace. This is only how i interpret what I have seen, from talking to people, and observing.
Money and Exercise are great examples, and I have abused both, and therefore find it imperative that I stop yo-yoing in these areas of my life. Once again, unfortunately, I thought I knew what was right. Only to see that I have not been able to exercise in almost 3 months…(no injuries here!), and I am in terrible debt..but I still give on impulse, and maybe more than I should….or spend more than I should (something i used to be laden in guilt for ever dare doing! i wouldnt buy $1 nail polish…or cookies….or anything!)because in spite of the ‘truths’ we know stand here, I think a truth God wants more than any of those isd the truth of the relationship, one-on-opne, we have with him, and others. That rises above other truths, in my interpretation. It doesnt make sense that if exercise and debtlessness is ‘truth’, that God would script for me to put it on the backburner, to learn something else for the time being. It becomes frustrating when there is always a ‘good, better, and best’ truth for everything. The more I sought God, the more following the truth in some of these areas you speak of……literally went out the window! Sometimes I prescribe that we dont or cannot understand what others are going through, simply of how it looks. Others can look at me like im deceived and blind or in denial…but the truth is the truth there too…..and if God says I am not in denial, and He determined me to walk this way when he said, “Walk”…..and because I walked others looked and noticed it didnt measure up to where they thought I should be walking……it still doesnt deem him calling me to walk where i walk, any less the truth. Things are not always as they appear.
WE are supposed to speak the truth in love too. I wonder if it is loving to speak these ‘truths’ when others undoubtedly will hear, and their feelings will be hurt…and their consciences harmed. I know the church has had much to say on pretty much ‘ignoring’ the feelings of people..but I present, that as much as any other minimization or exaggeration of the word of God..ignoring others feelings is inhumane.
I love the Serenity Prayer:
God, grant me the serenigty to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
I always want to be sure I am not influencing others to the point of supposing to know how to govern their lives. Normally when I find myself doing this, I am guilty of irresponsibility toward my OWN life….but thats just me.
Thank you Kelly for being bold enough to put the truth out there and say the hard things…you are a great example and encouragement to us other women.
Kelly,
I agree that there are certain things that ought not be controversial that *ARE*, just by virtue of our p.c. society.
I’ve got a pre-written blog post coming up in the next couple of weeks about one aspect of this very thing… that it is seen as wrong to say so, but we ALL KNOW that it’s best for kids to have a mom who is active and involved in their hearts and lives and stays home with them.
That shouldn’t be controversial, and yet, sadly, it is. *sigh*
~Jess