Exodus Mandate–Rally the Troops and Rescue Our Children

Ditto, Angela’s explanation. I also wonder if they did not choose this “conflation” because so many Christian parents, through subtle indoctrination themselves, cannot see what is happening without some jolting.

As a former teacher in the public schools for over 7 years, I say “take your children out of the public schools!” The LORD gave you HIS children to raise for HIM! If you leave your children in the state schools, you will have children who will understand and obey the “state commands” and reject the LORD’s commands.

It happens. I saw it happen intentionally in the classrooms here in rural Virginia;teachers usurping the authority of the parents….yes, even “good christian children from good christian homes”….
Remember what Vodie said about who controls the children with how much t-i-m-e the “state certified”/approved teachers spend with your blessings from the LORD.

Angela is right, we all need to pull our children out of the public schools. Raise them for HIM, not the state.

As one who formerly homeschooled, I can sincerely say that video makes me wanna puke.

Voddie, or whoever he is, has NO RIGHT or mandate by GOD to tell all of us what to do. the one comment he made was spewing words about public schools that some of us, who just happen to be brothers and sisters in CHRIST-have our children in. Some of us work there. Etc.

Plus, I found the biblical text to be misused. One example….Jesus said to teach them (Ithe children) about all HE commanded. I do not recall Christ specifically telling us all how to school our children.

I wish compassion and love coould be exalted above what kind of school we choose for our kids. If Voddie thinks his video message was loving, maybe he should ask the volumes of brothers and sisters in God what they think when they hear it. It comes off condemning, hostile, holier-than-thou, and lacking grace. It ewas really very hurtful and if he truly sees Gods heart, he would think more carefully before translating his personal convictions into Absolute Truth.

I am sorry Kelly, but I am angry at that video in particular, and the spirit it was done in. How can someone be that callous to how that makes those of us who public educate….feel?

Remember……Jesus said for everything we do, we do it unto him. Jesus knows how I (and probably other onlookers) feel right now, and I cant imagine He is smiling…I can think for myself and dont need Voddie or Exodus Mandate informing me of my erroneous ways. That doesnt mean I am not of open mind, or willing to be taught. It simply means I dont ‘sign over’ my own convictions and put them under someone mere man’s authority. I have to stand before God one day too, and Romans says if I walk with God the best I can, I WILL stand before my Master, becasue HE is able to make me stand.

I cannot udnerstand how other homeschoolers cannot see how these types of groups/followings/doctrines/theologies causes debates, and divisions. It does not promote unity. Unity is *supposed to be hard* because it is hard to accept the diversities of people. but hat is what *UNITY* specifically calls us to do.

I accept anyone, whetehr they homeschool, charter school, public school, performing arts school, or one room schoolhouse school. this does not mean i condone any and all BEHAVIOR, but it does mean I respect a family’s decision, and the right and freedom of man to choose for himself. diversity.

AM,

Very sorry you feel that way. I know you’re not “into absolute truth”, but these men, and many, many others, do feel like their beliefs are based on clear, Biblical principles, and are not just touting their opinions or personal convictions.

“Compassion and love” being exalted is not going to solve the problem with children from Christian homes turning away from the faith in droves, being indoctrinatated with anti-God religions and philosophies, and families having no time to influence the world-view of their children.

In a nutshell, the men in this film are echoing Jeremiah…don’t slander men of our day for preaching the same message, in the same stye (only with more grace) that God gave the prophets to preach.

Don’t be blind by the “all love, no accountability” hogwash some are trying to pass off as the gospel.

God was crystal clear in the Bible about proclaiming truth and prounouncing warning and judgement on the people that refused to listen.

Just because we’ve been told that “education is a private choice” doesn’t mean it’s a hands-off subject for the believer.

If the Bible says “do not heed the counsel of the ungodly”, then there is no debating about whether Christians should be giving their children, for the LARGEST part of their lives, to the humanist, Christian-hating government schools for their teaching. This is an absolute.

If the Bible says “raise them in the admonition of the Lord”, how can we justify letting someone else raise them in everything opposite that?

God said, “Teach them to love me all their hearts, souls and minds…” and then we think it’s OK to send them to a place that doesn’t even acknowledge His existence? Doesn’t acknowledge Creation? Virtually hates everything connected to Him? You really believe this is just a “neutral” area for believers? Wow.

You claim they were unloving…again, you need to hang out in Jeremiah a few days.

What is unloving, is to let people continue careening into destruction while waving sweetly at them to avoid offense. That is unloving. And as the bookd of Jeremiah says…

“Tell them…they will not listen to you, but tell them anyway. If you tell them, their blood will not be on your hands. But if you don’t tell them, I will require their blood at your hands.”

God hates when we have gods before Him. We have put the god of education before Him to the point we are willing to sacrifice our children to them for molding and shaping. And we are dearly reaping the consequences. I am thankful for a few men of God willing to speak the truth.

I can appreciate that you believe in the literal word of the Bible. However, didn’t the Bible also clearly say that Jesus heals the sick – so how can you allow yourself to go to a doctor? It would appear that the Bible frowns on that.

Here’s my other question. If the “truth” is so vivid and so apparent, how is it possible for your children to be “indoctrinated” by Anti-God philosophies, etc? Wouldn’t they come around anyway?

I am not into Absolute Truth for where it isnt written, thats right. Im tired of everything being classified as black and white, when it ISNT. its controlling, not loving.

I am not slandering them, i am answering back my thoughts. Its hurtful, and someone needs to stand up and say so. Some people, should listen. Maybe this is MY version of how God illuminated me to ‘speak the truth in love’. You have your thing to do; I have mine.

Its an excuse to ‘have their way’ to try and use the tactics they do, and give themselves ‘good reason’ to tell the rest of us how it is. i am not exalting compassion. truthfully, i think the truth asnd love go hand in hand, but since im hearing so much ‘truth’ and not enough ‘love’, naturally i am going to challenge those who speak this way to try and tip their scales in the other direction.

And, the things is, they are really just sharing THEIR opinion. it is THEIR conviction, and yes, they can only say THEY FEEL this way. it isnt 100% that way for everyone.

Like Ive said before, some people are looking for an ideal, when there is no ideal left to be had. its been RUINED. try to get as close to ideal, and you STILL miss the mark. Maybe in a world with no sin, there would be no birth control and no public school; i dont know. But that is all water under the bridge. The further we get from the ideal, the more confusion sets in, the more sin, the more snowballing, etc etc etc.

Where am I proclaiming a watered down gospel of “all love, no accountability”? I hold people accounta ble; I hold myself accountable. But since I dont subscribe to the ‘truths’ Voddie and some have, somehow I am missing the mark?

Im not slandering these men any more than they themselves are dishing out. Some remarks they said therein were slanderous. I mean honestly surprising…why do I feel they are missing the whole point?

It appears that you do then, Kelly, believe that it is an absolute that we must not do anything but homeschool our children, regaridng what you write in your last post.

Sorry, I do think God desires unity regardless of where we school our kids. People pointing fingers does not promote unity.

Do you all really feel closer and prized by God when he points out everything you are doing wrong, and need to correct on a daily and weekly basis? i rather bask in the love and acceptance of a God who cherishes me no matter how far away from perfect I am today. It is only then that I can take further steps toward him. the constant correcting is exasperating, and swallows people up.

yes, in this instance I think the Voddies of the world would be better suited to speak words of encouragment, and acceptance…..and leave the ‘where i send my kids to school’, undone.

What is the gospel, anyway? Something to think about.

My children DO NOT go to a christian hating school. see, this is where i feel some of you here are ‘indoctrinated’. They do not hate the existence of GOD! Where are you getitng this stuff? yes, public school isnt the greatest solution, but be sure of this….NONE is. Im tired of every single last person being blamed simply because they work for the government. Nor is the public school system ‘opposite’ of everything God says. in some ways, yes, different. in some ways, yes, be cautious. but not OPPOSITE. IMO that is labeling it…..and baging it up into one bag. damnation.

I never was told, “the way you school is your choice”. Maybe you were fed these things, but I was not. Things happened in the years I homeschooled my children, and I do feel like I was obeying God when I placed them in school. So, instead of people opening their mind and heart into believing that this world is GODS and EVERYTHING in it, and that he can use it for His good in spite of it not being the best alternative always-people instead focus and zoom in and micromanage the bible to fit how they want it to be???? and forget about me, and all the public schoolers, and caring for us, and ‘putting up with’ us, and working TOWARD relationship with us……instead, bang me over the head with a doctrine that THEY have been convicted of? You know why public schoolers dont shut up about it? Because their conscience wont allow them to! yes, I have a conscience, and it works pretty well. I am not going to ‘wimp out’ on where I feel God has led me. The fact that others dont feel He did, isnt my problem-its theirs.

This is so sad, that rules and ways of life are more important than people…….Voddies desire for ideal is more important than the people themselves, and this is all under the guise that he is offering up a sacrifice of obedience to God….seriously, I remain perplexed by that.

Yeah, WOW..I do think its a neutral subject-so that we have to really lay in wait for answers. Some people might just be ‘wowwing’ themselves when they get to Heaven and find out some people were actually seeking and following God when they placed their kids in school. I am sure thats laughable to many here, but so be it. I am so tired of my ‘truths’ and ‘realitites’ of my life being trashed.

If i need to hang out with Jeremiah a few days, some here could stand to hang out with Jesus a few days.

How does it feel to be talked to like that kelly? Yeah, I didnt like or appreciate it much either.

I can say that cause id look you in the eye and say it to your face. Seriously, this type of stuff, it HURTS. You may not realize how you come off, but you do. And i am NOT the first to say it. If some of us would be wise to heed counsel, then so may you? Arent we supposed to consider that we may not see the log in our own eye?

Im really confused. You know, I truly was and am sorry about all my other posts (last time around), and I MEANT it. I have been TRYING in earnest and sincerity of heart. But this has me angry. And I dont feel ANYTHING Ive said in this here post isnt anything you didnt come off harshly in your own retort to me.

Cant we all just get along? Cant we?

Some of you are legs, some are arms, and maybe I am a finger. But you still need me. If I am necessary, why keep on drumming on about things that only divide people?

You believe I hold up a mushy gospel; I believe you add to yours. In the long run, how important is it? Would we rather be that right about something? Id rather get along with people. Maybe God has for me to best learn by being out in the world amongst unbelievers; I dont know. I dont even try to guess anymore. I dont have a sixth sense. Mybe there are certain people whose lives wont be touched; mine included if I stayed homeschooling. Maybe aGod has something different for my children verses your children. I find it offensive that it is presumed I must not be obeying God. How do you feel when others tell you that YOU must not be obeying God? I mean, REALLY ponder that one, for a few minutes at least.

When I take a beating from the world, the last thing I need is to take it from the Body, too. I come to the body for refreshment, not war. I come because supposedly I am ewanted, and needed, and others want and need too. So we replenish each other, through the Holy Spirit alive within us…a part of Christ spread about. Sharing gifts. Upholding the weak. Etc. I do not need to come to my Christian bro’s and sis’s and find that yet, once again, I fell short. I get enough of that outside, from my unsaved family, etc.

I just dont get why we must have so much division.

The place I feel most embraced is my 12 step group. They are accepting and encouraging. Some are Christians, some are not. But in all, its rather sad I think that *I*, a Christian, feels and senses more of a profound, deeper acceoptance in my soul, than I do in many Christian gatherings. From what I understand anymore, this is par for the course. And yes, I repeat, it makes me very sad.

MotherOfDog-LOL!

I so needed that…

See….getting along…..its the preferred way.

(hums Alanis Morrisette’s “Isnt It Ironic, dont Cha Think?” as background music….)

Amen, Amen, Amen!!!! This is one of the many reasons I homeschool!

I’ve homeschooled since 1996 and have seen the movement go through many leaders and their opinions. This year was when we decided to ignore the warnings the leaders were preaching about, with them ignoring their own hypocritical advice. We heard things preached like, you don’t need to send your kids off to college where they’ll just fall into the world, blah, blah, blah. I even saw the pastor’s daughter blog about not going to college. Now her 2 famous brothers are attending college, perhaps for going into politics (talk about the height of temptation with the “world” ;^) ). I’m keeping my eye on the pastor’s daughter because, after her dad recommended The Return of the Daughters video, to emphasize the teaching that young women should stay home to fulfill their dad’s vision, I want to see just what she is allowed to do, when the advice given is opposite for the rest of the women there.

Authenticallyme, your words were refreshing to me, and I don’t understand why Word Warrior couldn’t read the world view you were coming from — it seems one of a broken spirit and pleading for compassion balanced with the Word. I can so relate.

I used to attend a self-described homeschool guru’s church. Everything was manipulated into serving for man’s agenda. The homeschool and rebelutionary conferences were touted as literally, “full-accord” events, in other words, the whole congregation was expected to contribute in one way or another — money, time, attendance, behind the scenes, etc., to make their little dynasty work.

There was such snobbery amongst the homeschoolers who could afford to “do it all”, because of finances, or they’re free time (supposedly) because they weren’t “slaves” working for another man — they did the “biblical” thing — they owned their own businesses, like the bible “clearly” tells men to do. What?! Yes, the teaching elder of that church is on audio expressing such ridiculous, manipulative, bible twisting and people either eat it up, relishing in another way to put their brothers and sister in Christ down to boost themselves up by boasting in their little exploits/endeavors in business — or they are beating themselves up because they don’t “measure up” to supposed “biblical” mandates. It is total manipulation and when your eyes are opened to it, it can really frustrate a person.

At one point, this “leader” was openly putting down other school choices, until he got called on it to stop, and people left the church.

You see, when a “leader” has a vested interest in an endeavor, exploit, conferences or franchise of books, it becomes apparent to some of us who are trying to listen to the Holy Spirit, that there is a conflict of interest. These people make their money off of these teachings. Period. They also really, really believe what they are teaching to be absolute truth. So, some of us confront them, and they will either to continue to go on their merry way, gaining a following, or they will recognize and turn away from their manipulations. Pride and fear are HUGE motivating factors within these circles. It also is a huge emphasis in the Christian homeschool world.

So, Autheticallyme is not alone in her understanding and world-view about the balance of grace, compassion and understanding of different convictions, balanced with the clear teachings in the Bible. Ones like, “go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel” which is that Jesus came to seek and to save sinners by living a sinless life, died for the sins of many/world, rose again on the 3rd day according to the scriptures and was seen by hundreds or more after his ressurection, then went back to heaven visibly. He then sent us a comforter — His Holy Spirit which He told them He would do before He died — to guide them and US into all truth.

Many of the teaching leaders I’ve encountered also promote the idea that God is sovereign. That all things work together for good, that nothing is out of His plan. Why do some of these same leaders not see that all things are His? That we are to walk by the Spirit? I would not expect a devoted Christian single mom in the inner city (and I know a mom just like that) to have to follow some man’s opinion on homeschooling in order to stay out of sin. That’s just one situation among many.

Oh, and some of the other things that Voddie has preached are just opinion, too, that has to be graciously dealt with. He has taught that youth groups are unbiblical, so don’t let you teens participate, or better yet, start a family-integrated church. Well, he has a website and computers and probably has all kinds of things in his life (his wife in on video with a beautifully shorn head that I find is very beautiful on her, but the Bible also talks about a woman’s head having a covering, for example, that she would be in clear violation of, if not for the wonderfulness of God’s uniqueness in each person, IMO) — and I find that Voddie would be guilty of his own warning. He does things that are clearly not mentioned in the Bible, therefore, they are forbidden.

Nonsense.

God is very frugal. He uses everything for His glory, and if a person believes in the grace doctrines, they will also believe that His Word will not return unto Him void, that those whom He has called He has saved, that He is able to keep us from falling, that He’s is faithful. You know, perseverence of the saints. I’m not necessarily trying to shove any particular teaching down anyone’s throat. I’m just sharing here the wonderful confidence (as we read in 1st or 2nd John) about my salvation and how it affects my decisions in life. If the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. Thank the Lord.

P.S. There is no “hate” here.

I so agree with your last response to Kathleen…..you needed to say that Kelly.

A thought I have had for many years on my refrigerator:

“In the absence of Biblical conviction, you go the way of culture.”

***

Important note: This film did not say that Christians must homeschool their children…you read that in, just as you’ve read many other things into God said, “Teach them to love me all their hearts, souls and minds…” and then we think it’s OK to send them to a place that doesn’t even acknowledge His existence? Doesn’t acknowledge Creation? Virtually hates everything connected to Him? You really believe this is just a “neutral” area for believers? Wow.
hat I say.***

So, what are the other options then, if the film wasnt saying to homeschool the children? Voddie called (i could watch the video again to see exactly what) public schools horrific names. He also was urging all christians everywhere to band together and get our children OUT of public schools! What is one left to think?

Secondly, and Im commenting on the same copied text from your post- it wasnt the video I was talking about in all my comments. I was speaking specifically of this comment:

***
If the Bible says “do not heed the counsel of the ungodly”, then there is no debating about whether Christians should be giving their children, for the LARGEST part of their lives, to the humanist, Christian-hating government schools for their teaching. This is an absolute.
***

and this one:

***God said, “Teach them to love me all their hearts, souls and minds…” and then we think it’s OK to send them to a place that doesn’t even acknowledge His existence? Doesn’t acknowledge Creation? Virtually hates everything connected to Him? You really believe this is just a “neutral” area for believers? Wow.
***

now you say:

***We are operating from two different world views,(not even sure if we’re reading the same Bible) so I don’t see the point in debating.***

not even sure if we are reading the same bible? what do you mean by that? i sense that as a sarcastic and arrogant comment, Kelly. you KNOW deep down I am reading the same bible, we just dont interpret the same. I am sure there is a way that could be stated that would not leave me, or others, feeling so put off, and distanced from people who have these black-and-white convictions.
Wait, I mean people who have them AND try to convict the rest of us of the better way???

See, here is where I hold people accountable. The things you wrote in your original post come off in a spirit of haughtiness. Even now telling me you dont think we read the same bible. Telling me “wow”, that you cat believe I think how we school our children is neautral ground. I guess now that you see what kind of accoountability I hold people to….maybe you dont care for that either.

Saying sorry i ‘feel that way’ is taking NO responsibility, toward people on a personal level. Saying we were wrong and being able to articulate why, thats different. Why do you feel you are absolved from taking any encouragment and pulling out of planks from people such as me?

I dont see how you really took what I said and pondered on it, or am trying to learn from what I am saying here.

I am willing to try and get along with EVERYONE here, and my heart was softened. But, I too will put things back on people that they say. Mainly, when they are speaking in a way that lacks kindness, as i m yself have been guilty of, and continue to be. But I am *trying* to work on it, hard.

L said:

***Thank you, Kelly, for posting this video. Thank you for braving the hate mail to proclaim the truth so few are willing to hear.***

what ‘hate mail’? i do not appreicate being told that I am one of the few is willing to hear the ‘truth’. I am a sister in christ. I am part of the body. I wonder how God feels when his own children insult each other? I am a parft of his Bride. and YES, I do feel that Jesus wants us to treat one another as we want to be treated…and that we are insulting him when we insult his children, and i believe that to be a higher matter than if we homeschool or not. why is this so wrong?

***Thank you, Voddie, for proclaiming the truth to those who refuse to be wise and see the impending dangers and snares. The prophet is not welcome in his own town.***

those who refuse to be wise? to be specific, do you mean me too, L? that imo is a blanket statement, lumping me into a lump with all the other people who dont obey ‘truth’. Kelly, if you say that isnt ‘allowed’ here, why are certain comments allowed that promote strife? (once again, my style of ‘holding accountable’ and being ‘loving’)? to add: yes, at this time, I would say that to anyone’s face. I feel it is that important.

***Today’s Canaanite Schools are indoctrination centers. Our nation has sacrificed the hearts, minds and souls of our children to these institutions of brainwashing and turning the hearts of the children away from their fathers and instead to the state. ***

Well why do we care so much about turning the hearts of the children……..when we right here apparently cannot keep our hearts turned toward one another? That is a great question to meditate upon, in my opinion. Keeping one ‘rule’ while trashing others?

I am not feeling the love OR truth here in this thread. And that is very disheartening to me, and I take a stab at it that God isnt too thrilled either.

I’m embarrassed to say I hadn’t seen this one yet, Mrs. Kelly. 🙂

As far as the actual resolution goes, here’s a link where you can see it in full:

http://www.exodusmandate.org/art_20060425-resolution-for-sbc-annual-meeting.htm

It’s a given that not everyone is going to agree with this resolution, but I believe a careful reading of it will clear up some of the misconceptions about what exactly the writers were striving to communicate and achieve through writing it.

“To fault those who sincerely search out truth so that they may “walk in His ways” is a dangerous thing, in my opinion.”

Well, this is handy logic. That means that Authenticallyme and Kathleen can not disagree with you without being labeled as “dangerous.”

AM and Kathleen – I would guess that we disagree on many points – but I am constantly impressed by your passion and intelligence. It makes me see how many ways there are to be Christian.

I vote for love and understanding. Always.

A word to the wise…

“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, since I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.” John 15:18

Yeah, thats how I feel too kelly. That what I say is rejected, or given no consideration, becasue the world hates me, and Christians included.

I guess i can just reassure myself that all is good, who cares, and that this is my act of partaking in Jesus’s suffering.

Then again, I am pretty sure you werent talking to me.

MOD- I think I might believe in a Big Bang Theory. But if I do, I think God made the “Bang!”.

I do not believe in the literal 7 day creation. I like gap theories.

I know there is, and that is why I think I am able to bridge the two-creation with evolution. I dont have any cold hard mindsets; its one of those things in process-i just keep taking more in.

I’m not offended Civilla – but nor do I feel any need to be saved. I appreciate it though, I really do. (I like your name. Is that a family name?)

I’m not going to argue your points except to say that I don’t feel that I am tolerant because I want others to be tolerant of me. I’m tolerant because it makes SENSE to me. We are all different and have different beliefs. That’s all.

Tami,

I watched this on another blog the other day. I agree that public schools are not the place for Christian children. I do however think that as Christians we need to state our opinions to other Christians and then trust the Holy Spirit to work in their lives and convict them.

When I first became a Christian there was a lot in my life that needed changing. The Holy Spirit convicted me of each thing that needed to be changed in His time. The timing is different for each Christian individual and is determined by God for his glory.

I think we have to be careful to tread lightly with our Christian brothers and sisters who may not be as far along in their walk as we are and trust the Holy Spirit to bring them to right thinking in His timing.

As for me and mine I would probably leave this country before I put my children in public school!!!

Authenticallyme,

There is right and wrong and there is absolute truth. It is true that homeschooling is better than public school for the children of Christians and this can be proven through Scripture.

You are right no one is better than anyone else but God’s way is better than man’s way.

That said I believe we need to be patient with our brothers and sisters in Christ who may not see the truth of what is being presented about public schools. That is why I hesitate to say that Christian parents who place there children in public schools are sinning.

I am sorry if you found my comments offensive but I cannot deny the truth about public schools. They do in fact have an agenda and that agenda does not include God therefore Christian children are better educated elsewhere. I pray that all Christian parents will be convicted of this truth but I recognize it only through the Holy Spirit and not my words or the words of any other Christians that this conviction will happen.

In Him,

Taunya

Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
Heb 5:13-6:1 (NIV)

Yeah Angela, but it is wrong for people to be presumptuous about where “they” are versus where “others” are. cause i cant betcha that many who you dont suppose to be ‘ahead’ of you in some plane of life, is, per God.

it just sounds very condescending…and prideful.

AM,

The point of my last post is that we have to move past the basic tenants of Christianity into the discipleship of others. I believe that is what Kelly is doing in her blog.

Some will agree with her and some will disagree. I in no way believe that I am better than anyone else. However, I do know that I am more spiritually mature than some Christians and less mature than others. I am here to learn and add insight as I feel led just as everyone else is.