(Thanks to Heather for passing along this article.)
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” Albert Einstein
“Next month the right will send millions of their own children to public schools that are literally controlled by the left – meaning that it is only the liberals’ “values,” “morals” and curriculum that are taught in our government schools.
“Education is thus a most powerful ally of humanism, and every American school is a school of humanism. What can a theistic Sunday school’s meeting for an hour once a week and teaching only a fraction of the children do to stem the tide of the five-day program of humanistic teaching?”
– C.F. Potter, signer of Humanist Manifesto 1930
Using public education as a “weapon” is nothing new. It was Josef Stalin who said, “Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.” Wake up, conservatives! They want our children, and we are handing them right over. Remember, giving aid and comfort to the enemy during time of war is considered treason, and this is what we are doing by placing our children in the leftist schools.”
“Open war is upon you whether you will risk it or not!” Aragorn in Return of the King
“So next time the right wants to accuse the liberals of having a mental disorder or some sort of madness, consider that this mental illness must be contagious and that we conservatives just may have given it to them. After all, it is the right who still send their children and youth every year to the left’s schools for an “education.””
“… [E]very child in American entering schools at the age of 5 is insane because he comes to schools with certain allegiances toward our Founding Fathers, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. …”
– Chester Pierce, professor of education at Harvard (1970)
“I believe that … [public] education is the fundamental method of social progress and reform … this conception has due regard for … socialistic ideals.” and “There is no God and there is no soul. … There is no room for fixed … or moral absolutes.”
– John Dewey, father of modern public education and signer of Humanist Manifesto 1930
Read the rest of the article at World Net Daily
Think Outside the Classroom
$6.97 
Are you a homeschooling mother who worries that you aren’t “doing enough”? Are you thinking of homeschooling but feel afraid that you aren’t qualified? If so, read more…
47 comments
While I agree with many of the sentiments expressed against public “schooling”, I certainly am not going to allow anyone to pigeonhole me into one side of the political spectrum against “the other”.
Maybe it’s my paranoia gone amuck, but I’m not willing to increase anyone’s number (or political power) just because they “push the right buttons” on issues that I care about deeply. Sometimes it feels as though certain people think all they have to do is yell a few key phrases and the rest of us will come flocking behind like a herd of mindless cattle.
I hope that my brothers and sisters in Christ keep in mind something that Abraham Lincoln said:
“Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side, for God is always right”
My husband and I don’t expect a different result if we send our kids to public school. We’ve seen many public schooled kids grow up to love God passionately, so we don’t see why our results would be any different. The proof is in the pudding. There have been generations and generations come out of public school who live right and holy for the Lord.
However, I don’t see generations and generations of home schoolers living right and holy for the Lord. Especially since home schooling, while not new, wasn’t as common years ago and we are only now starting to see the results of home schooling, and it’s not that great.
Mrs. W.,
Christians are not given instructions to make decisions according to results; we are given clear, Scriptural guidelines and principles to live by, and told to obey–no matter the results.
There are numerous Scriptural applications to help us think through the issue how we are to raise our children and who we are allow to counsel/mentor/teach/disciple them.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with *outcomes*, on either side, though thousands of people would be willing to prove your assertions wrong. (Actually, there are statistics that prove your assertions wrong, without the added testimonies.)
Terrific, timely post. It’s funny, I was listening to Dr. Laura describe the definition of neurotic behavior this morning – yep, that’s it…doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome. And worse, we get mad at OTHER people for our getting the same outcome (inferior educational standards, questionable disciplinary tactics, usurping of parental authority, substandard nutritional options, and so on), and then send them back, again, the next year. Diagnosable.
Well, the Bible talks about judging things by their fruits, so yes, we are to judge on outcomes. Nowhere in the Bible can anyone find a command to home school. True, we can find verses that tell us to raise our kids in the way of the Lord etc but those verses also tell us to “bind” the word of God on us, and we don’t do that. It appears that we pick and choose which parts of those particular verses we feel like applying to our lives.
Mrs W, I think you’re right, that we are to judge things by their fruits – that’s why so many of us choose not to send our children into harm’s path by way of public school. There’s enough danger from the Enemy just walking around – I’d rather not drop my family off at his door, which is sadly what many public schools have become.
One of the many many reasons we homeschool is to keep our children from the social engineering that goes on in public schools. I’m having a hard enough time keeping inappropriate library books out of the hands of my 5 & 6 year old boys (yes, inappropriate picture books in the children’s section). I can’t imagine keeping up with what’s they’re being taught in their text books. Homeschooling is not easy for me, and I’m a teacher by profession. But, we are committed and feel that our reasons for homeschooling far outweigh the ease of sending the kids off on the school bus every day and having a more restful morning and a cleaner house.
Hey everyone,
I’m starting a group. My hoped for and expected outcome is for children to become better citizens, who, without question, take in everything I say. I want them to trust me more than their idiot parents, who don’t know what is best for them. They will be taught that if something is not implicitly shown them it will be impossible to learn on their own. This way they cannot cause turmoil once they are grown citizens by questioning any authority. I also want to show them that God is a farce and the only real god worth serving is society and self. One of the perks is that these youngsters will also learn the 3 Rs. But that is the secondary goal. I want a more perfect society. Anyone of those Christians who doesn’t like this is just nuts. Just because I intend to destroy all meaning of truth is no reason to go crazy and buck the system. If these people were not so interested in being in control of their own children, they wouldn’t feel the need to usurp conventional societal acceptability of normal. And if anyone questions your decision to send you kids to this group citing the fact that you can only give someone authority over your children, but the responsibility for any harm, failure or deficiency will lie only with the parent, tell them you are fine with that. Most everyone else is. Thank you for your time….and your children.
I have to agree with KB, the first poster. Public schools arent strictly left, and almost no church today is capable of undoing any supposed ‘damage’ anyway, because most churches are dysfunctional themselves. It isnt the churchs job to wash us, weekly.
I agree. There is nowhere in scripture it point-blank says to homeschool/christian school/ etc. People like to connect-the-dots, but sometimes following the rabbit trail becomes a form of ‘micro-management’.
Mrs. W.
Do we forget the command in Deut. that as parents it is our responsibility to teach our children all day long about God’s ways and not let them forget? Or is that only for the Jews? So, we throw out the Old Testament altogether? Psalms? Proverbs? Major and Minor prophets…etc..? If not, why are we throwing out those verses? Why would I allow my children to be taught to be humanistic in their thinking and tolerant of all behavior?
No, I do not see a grand parade of Christians who stand up for their faith and have concern for the lost coming from PS. I see a lot of people making a lot of money and being more concerned about their appearance than their faith. That’s the fruit I see.
We, at our church, are constantly trying to challenge adults(most raised in church and PS’d) to think outside themselves. Every Sunday, every sermon. Must be a problem.
You must, Mrs.W. live in a very unusual environment.
Mrs. W.,
To your first comment…”judging things by their fruit” has nothing to do with ignoring spiritual responsibility given to us as parents. There are many things not explicitly written in Scripture–our terminology has changed. Isn’t it foolish to conclude that because the word “homeschool” isn’t used that there are no other principles and commands that apply to our children’s education? We could get out of a whole lot based on that deduction.
To your second comment, though there are ceremonial laws in the OT we are freed from, I think we are to adhere to the rest–including the “binding of Scripture”, although it may be an index card in our pockets, and plaques with verses in our homes 😉 The principle is to *saturate* constantly. How can that be done if they are in a Godless environment all day?
All said, the entire Bible is full of what we are to embrace and what we are to avoid. Those commands would apply to our children, I think, by default. If *I* am “not to walk in the counsel of the ungodly”, it stands to reason I’m not to allow my children to. (What is ungodly? Anything that rejects God.)
And by their own admittance, the public school system is ungodly–they virtually boast in the fact. If that were the only verse it would be enough for me.
I loved this post. My goal in schooling my children is not to raise smart adults, it’s to raise wise Christians. My goal is not for them to go to an ivy league college, but for them to love Christ with all of their hearts and to run hard after Him. That is why I homeschool, I refuse to give up 8+ hours a day of teachable moments that will turn my child’s heart to Christ.
I may have to disagree with that idea that all public schools lean toward the left. Granted, it has been a few years since I was in school, but I had a Christian biology teacher who taught us evolution with the premise that he didn’t believe it and had a former minister teach our abstinence only sex education courses. Not to mention Christian groups on campus such as Young Life, Wyld Life, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, etc. And I had wonderful Christian friends, who are still my friends today.
As my only child is an infant, I’m not sure what our education plans are yet. I won’t blindly send her into any school, but I’m not ready to rule out public schools just yet.
Nurse Bee,
Let me challenge your thought process, if I may…
I find it difficult NOT to believe that the under-workings of the public school system (though certainly not all teachers), is “left”, to put it mildly. Reading even those few quotes in the post, how can we still defend the “innocence” of the left’s/humanists agenda? That’s an honest question. Don’t look at the teachers…they aren’t being told that they are social engineers. The engineering is being done subtly–and it is working like a charm. Even Christians can’t see it.
Also, doesn’t it seem risky at best, to base your opinion of the system on a few teachers who broke the rules? Suppose a school did have Christian teachers willing to risk their jobs to teach that evolution is wrong (evolution is only a tiny sliver of the problem) There is no way to know your child will get that teacher. And even if he does, what of the other doctrines/philosophies being taught? What of the other teachers who aren’t Christians, mentoring your children? What of the heavy peer influence, presenting wickedness as fun, exciting and normal? What of the loss of time due to excessive amounts of homework at night that render it virtually impossible to spend even a small amount of time with your children? I could go on.
I think one problem is sometimes we are not willing to accept/believe the subtle teachings that are shaping the minds of tomorrow to humanist teaching.
In the late 80’s, in our little country, conservative school, our Sociology class had an assignment (from the text book–I think even our teacher didn’t get the full implication) asking us to form groups and make a hypothetical decision about who to “allow to live” in the case of a global catastrophe where only 8 people could be preserved underground.
I’m not making this up. Such thinking is hugely humanistic, placing the authority of life in the hands of humans, preparing our little minds to place differing values on human life and even be prepared to make choices that involve taking one life to save another.
Sorry to be so wordy, there are just so many things I don’t think we consider.
I truly plead from concern, not because I want a debate, or to be right.
Thank you for being so courageous about this topic. You are certainly right!
According to a lot of the wonderfully positive comments made here about public school, it appears that possibly things have changed since I was in high school?
I really don’t mean to be unkind. I really don’t, but are people wearing blinders or are they going through denial?
Because back when I was a teen, even if you had good teachers you still had:
*Very strong peer dependency
*Pressure to drink, drugs, smoke, sex (the list goes on)
*Bullying
*Labels – back when I was in school you were either a geek, dork, gothic, prep, jock. You have to fit into one of those molds or you are nothing.
My younger sister was called a “skank” (even though she is a neat freak about her appearance) only because she chose to be friends with people who were not wealthy.
My niece was just sent to public school for Kindergarten. I asked her how school went; she said, “She pushed me”. I am sure she will get used to it and expect it throughout her school days. Basically that is what it boils down to. Being pushed.
p.s.
I know my comment above sounds harsh, but truly it was meant as loving. Make prayerful decisions!
And also I wanted to say my comment was not meant as a guilt trip for the older mother who has already sent her children through school.
This seems a bit alarmist. My husband has decided that our children will either attend the best private schools in our region…or if no good private schools are available we will homeschool. However, this is not because we believe that public schools are run by evil people who want to destroy out children. Rather, we do not see excellence when we look at the public school. Sure there are the smart kids….but mostly the public school system is a joke.
I do find it annoying when people get all up in arms about the public school system. Schools don’t raise good kids. A good family raises a good kid. Period. It doesn’t matter if you send your child to public, private, or homeschool. It’s the family that has the greatest effect on a child. It’s what you teach your child…it’s how you are there for them….or not there for them. You can’t blame it all on school.
I have known many good people who came out of public school. Guess what! They became Christians who lived good productive lives.
Kim – I don’t know when you went to high school, but that pretty much sums up my own experience. I was an athlete – and a dork, because I wasn’t a UIL participant – but if I hadn’t been an athlete at all I would have been in the category of the physically at risk from the lack of adult supervision. Your example/recount is spot-on.
And Nurse Bee – it sounds like you’re a thinking, involved, invested parent – I can only share what I know, but one of my parenting regrets will be letting my daughters continue in public school when I knew better. They are only 7 and 8, but two years in public school was two years too many. The exposure to inappropriate language, overexposed piers (a source of huge sadness for me, that no one is protecting these BABIES), and wrong-minded adults was a failing of mine, which leads back to Word Warrior’s point ….why do we keep sending them back, expecting a different result?
We homeschool our children and believe it is the best thing we can do for our kids and agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, but my husband pastors a church where the majority is in the public education system. Majority is putting it lightly we are one of two families that homeschool out of about 175 people. It is hard to minister to those who say there is no other option for them but to send their kids to public school. Some just don’t think about the things you write and make choices based on mainstream. My concern is for those who genuinely have no other option for their children. How do we still minister to them without sounding careless because we aren’t in their shoes? I try to be encouraging and prayerful for them, even though I feel like it is not reciprocated at times in our direction for our schooling. In a perfect world, we would go to a church that had likeminded fellowship, but for now God has us in the midst of believers that rarely agree with us on matters of family ie. homeschool, courtship, family size, etc. If my husband and I ever really sat down with people to tell them how we are convicted on some of these issues, they would really think we are freaks! They already do just based on the fact we choose to educate at home! Some of these things are so foriegn to folks. We feel exhausted just trying to share the gospel and encouraging people to live a changed, converted life, let alone all of these other issues. Any thoughts?
Sarah,
You said…”This sounds alarmist.”
I’d have to say, it is. It is an alarm. Because as black and white as the evidence is, Christians just refuse to see it.
The article used quotes from the public school system’s founder/supporters which clearly expresses their intentions:
“… [T]he battle for humankind’s future must be waged and won in the public school classrooms by teachers who correctly perceive their role as proselytizers of a new religion. … The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new – the rotting corpse of Christianity … and the new faith of humanism. …”
– John Dunphy, 1983 (Secular-Humanist)
If that isn’t alarming to a Christian, I’m afraid nothing will be.
Just for the record, statistics reveal that the “left” is succeeding in converting the majority of children from Christian homes. And even those who don’t abandon their faith are often so watered down as to not make a difference anyway.
And can I just add the most important thing here….of course there are Christians who went to public school–almost all of us here are those people, (not unscathed, I may add). But this is much more about our responsibility as parents. What does the Scripture say? Specifically? Not about educating our children, per se, but about living the Christian life? About walking in truth and fleeing from the appearance of evil? Do these countless verses not apply to what we do with our children?
And as I wrote in the last post, don’t we understand that there is no neutrality of religion? Where light is removed, there is darkness left?
Again, spoken with brokenness of spirit and absolute humility…pleading, not arguing.
I agree with KB that it is foolish to allow people to push hot buttons. I’m not a particularly political person and several years ago lost the illusion that either major party is on “my” side.
John Dewey’s own words “out” the true agenda of the public education system here. For at least my entire lifetime, the goal has been to engineer a godless society. Even if it wasn’t always obvious.
With regard to the statement that “plenty” of public schooled kids grow up to passionately love God…
Maybe we should consider that perhaps God was gracious in protecting those kids whose parents were operating upon the best information they had. They “turned out okay” IN SPITE of their environment–just as those with abusive home lives are able to overcome circumstances by God’s grace.
And what about the ones who are NOT following God? How can we be sure that exposure to public education is not precisely what caused them to stray?
We have access to information about public education which our parents and grandparents were likely to have been unaware. Would it be wise to just say “well, we haven’t YET had an entire generation of Hitler Youth come out of the PS system, so there must be something good about it”?
Or should we be thanking God for the measure of protection He has extended and be determined to not rush blindly ahead on the presumption that He will honor our parenting efforts when we ignore His warnings?
God protected Daniel and his friends when the Jews were sent into captivity… living amongst high-ranking pagans and being trained to serve heathen masters. We should not forget, though, that Daniel was in the position he was in because his parents’ and grandparents’ generations refused to listen to those who warned them to turn their hearts back to loving and serving the Lord.
A reading of Deuteronomy 28 contrasts the blessings of obedience with the judgment that follows disobedience.
Of course, it was always a part of God’s plan for Daniel to be where he was but that does not erase the guilt of those who went before him.
Concerning “fruit”…
” Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?
Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruits, nor can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Therefore by their fruits you shall know them.” Matthew 7:15-20
See also Matthew 12:33-37, Luke 6:43-45
Jesus said we should be able to recognize false prophets and hypocrites by their fruit.
We tend to think of “false prophets” in a religious sense. But in broader terms, a false prophet could be anyone who presumes to speak with an authority they have not been given.
Jesus also said :
The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one who does not gather with Me scatters Matthew 12:30
I sense I am in the minority on this blog, and I also sense that you are so convinced of your cause that you will only want to change my point of view.
I don’t even know how to respond to you….without saying that obviously I disagree with your war mantra, and I think the ultra right wing Christians are fighting a loosing battle because they totally disregard science…among other things. Yes I am a devout Christian, and I was home schooled by parents who valued me. You seem to say that a parent who sends their child to public school isn’t taking their responsibility as a parent highly enough. That sounds downright judgmental and I am sure every one reading on this corner of the web will pigeon whole me as a radical leftist! But I’m not. I am a stay at home wife and mother. I am a Christian. Maybe it is because I am married to a man who is highly educated that we value education over religious fever.
Hope my views don’t get me lynched around here!
I think my comment may have been eaten.
Kelly, I don’t think you are unreasonable. This is a very serious topic and I don’t for one second see you as being condescending or judgmental of those who do not currently have their children in a home-schooling environment.
What I see is your concern for how we parents tend to the souls that have been entrusted to our care. Regardless of how we reason for or against public schooling, we are actually going to have to account for how we invested the “talents” that God has loaned to us.
That is true for the public schooler who perhaps should have home-schooled as well as the home-schooler who abused or neglected her children.
It is not wrong to challenge believers to carefully consider the effects of our choices.
“Maybe it is because I am married to a man who is highly educated that we value education over religious fever.”
On another thread, I’ve posted thoughts on our concepts of “education”.
(copy of original)
As tends to happen in homeschool vs government school debates, it appears there are multiple dynamics here which complicate the issue. I believe that the three main points here are
1. The definition and purpose of education.
2. The role of parents and
3. The role of government in the lives of citizens
Unless we all have the same understanding of definitions, there will probably always be disagreement even amongst believers.
Not everyone defines “education” in precisely the same way. And it appears that some commenters believe there is a division between “secular” (reading, writing, etc) and “sacred (religious training)” while others believe there is no separation and so the entire educational process must necessarily be one which centers on God. The former group will naturally approach the topic of education from a different angle than will the latter. Is that a fair statement?
I’ll be up front and state that I have come to believe there is no separation for me as a believer. While I fully understand that I am not the one who saves my kids, I agree with those who have said that we have been given a trust to guard. My husband and I are not interested in gambling with our children’s spiritual well-being by handing off their training to another. But I’m not wanting to debate as I understand God works on each of us in different ways–at different times–and under different circumstances.
I posted the following a while back on a different blog and added a few thoughts here:
“Educate”: to bring up, as a child; to instruct; to inform and enlighten the understanding; to instill into the mind principles of arts, science, morals, religion and behavior. To educate children well is one of the most important duties of parents and guardians. (Webster’s Dictionary 1828 ed)
“Educate”: to provide with knowledge or training, especially through formal schooling; teach (the ‘new and up to date’ Houghton Mifflin American Heritage Student Dictionary 1998 ed)
Not only has the commonly understood meaning of education been altered, but the formerly assumed duty of the “parent or guardian” has been somehow transferred to being a state-level concern. (Some people refer to this as “nanny-statism” or government as God). With this shift, the government has taken upon itself to not only determine which arts and sciences are appropriate for study but also has actively influenced which moral standards, religious beliefs and behaviors are acceptable.
I find it interesting that even though many US citizens have adopted the second “modern” definition of education, our government leaders apparently have retained the earlier meaning and have taken it upon themselves to play the role of “parent”.
The effect becomes not “education under parental direction” but rather “*indoctrination* (instruction of a person in the doctrines of beliefs of a particular group) according to a government mandate”. I say indoctrination because that education effectually accomplishes regardless of who is doing the teaching. And parents who attempt to train their children in a manner which is outside of the “approved societal standard” are often accused of “indoctrinating” the children in a damaging way.
While the visible complaint about homeschooling is often that the “quality” of the home education is lacking (and sometimes this is true), my observation is that the underlying concern is more frequently the content.
The argument surfaces that “parents are incapable of providing adequate ‘education’”. But the reality is that the only reason parents are “unqualified” is that there is a real possibility that they will fail to train their children to fit into the “approved” mold of society.
(Please note that I am not talking about “homeschool” as a cover for obviously illegal/immoral activity such as abuse and neglect. Such people should be held accountable for their actions and there is greater concern for their “qualification” to even be parents)
Copied from http://terrysoapbox.blogspot.com/2009/06/real-vs-pseudo-education.html
Sarah,
No lynching by me…I’m not waging a war against Christians, I’m waging it FOR them. Heartfelt concern…that is it. There is no way I would subject myself to such hostility if I didn’t believe it was of the deepest spiritual nature.
If you maintain your position that public school “isn’t that bad”, and you don’t know how to respond to me, then please tell me what are we to make of the quotes from the article? What do we do with their blatant claim that ultimately, the undercurrent of the “system” is to destroy Christianity and usher in the religion of humanism? I must know how we are going to be let off the hook for allowing our children to be taught by those with such a hostile, open agenda.
My only source for wisdom is God’s Word. How does it answer their position?
I used to work for a public elementary school, and I can tell you that the majority of the children attending the school didn’t take it seriously. It’s all a “game” to them, and most of them are lazy and don’t want to do any work. There favorite time of day during school is recess or lunch time. I know, because when I worked as an Instructional Aide, students would tell me this all the time.
Also, most of them don’t want to be there.
Staff and teachers complain about how “lazy and terrible” the students are because they don’t do their work. They also complain about how incompetent the parents are for not working with their children. What a positive environment that is, NOT!
Staff are also inconsistent with classroom management and punishment is redundant. The same students get suspended over and over for the same behavior with no real consequences and therefore, it becomes a “game” to the students, and a headache for the teachers. Also, if your child is labeled a “trouble maker,” all the staff know about it, and will deliberately watch this child to the point that if he/she so much as says, “Boo,” they will be suspended because no one wants to deal with the REAL issues the child might have. The staff members just want the child “out of their hair” for a few days, but when he/she returns, the process starts up again. What a waste!
Students in public schools, generally are rude, have no manners, and lack respect for adults and sometimes, even their own peers. Even if a caring staff is on the “side of the child,” trust me, that staff member suffers because no one else really cares or wants to deal with the issues. I know, because it happened to me ALL the time! You don’t get the support, and after awhile, you just end-up being like “everyone else” to save yourself the pain and stress of trying to make a difference.
With this small example I have given, I can see why some individuals have opted to take their children out of public schools. It’s a madhouse – a madhouse I don’t have to endure anymore. I am grateful that I don’t have to go back (I quit my job in May 2009.) It’s really difficult to work in and support an environment you start learning can “harm” not only the children, but to the adults as well (if they are willing to see the reality of the public school system).
Look….I’m don’t commenting. It’s like you turn everything into a LIFE OR DEATH ISSUE (echo, echo, echo) There are 6 billion people in this world…and don’t think for one minute you have the one cultural way of living life that will work for everyone. Good luck. I find it silly.
I had a hard time sleeping last night thinking about this – I think the commenters who aren’t comfortable with the politicizing of this issue are correct. It’s far more important than politics. But it is interesting that self-described conservatives overwhelmingly send their children to a place that openly mocks their values.
Heather, I so appreciate your description of how education is not simply academics. Those who are in charge of our public school system know that better than most.
Sarah Falk – where my children are and who they’re with 8-10 hours a day elevates the issue to one of life or death, according to God, a whole slew of laws, and common sense. It IS that serious. One’s level of education has nothing to do with it. I don’t think anyone here suggested that “one cultural way of living life will work for everyone” – that’s the point, it’s a spiritual matter, eternal actually, not a cultural one. Hardly silly, to consider these matters seriously.
Sarah,
I’ve never proposed that *I* have “the one cultural way of living life”. My only desire is to challenge Christians to believe that Scripture DOES contain instruction for living. Yes, some of these issues are in fact, life or death. We are witnessing thousands of spiritual deaths among Christian homes, marriages and children. It is very serious, and I can’t imagine a less loving thing to do than to “stay out of it”.
Saying “I think it’s silly” is a pretty weak escape from the question I asked you which you have avoided twice. I do NOT want to argue…but when I see a fellow believer get angry toward other believers because they are genuinely trying to encourage families and homes to flourish, well, I’m left scratching my head with the deepest heartache.
You aren’t obligated to listen to anything said here…but I would beg you to be open to God’s Word as it applies to all of life, even education.
“How dare you insinuate that I’m not a Christian…or that I need to study the word of God more so I can do things the right way…like you of course.”
Kelly stated that it concerns her to see FELLOW BELIEVERS become agitated about her stance on the serious nature of parental responsibility and her professed desire for all of us to prayerfully consider what we are doing. Every one of us needs to be daily studying and asking God for direction. She didn’t claim to be perfect or know that “only homeschoolers are true Christians who love God”
“My point is that in order to be poised to really change things in this world you need a good, solid education. Teaching kids that the world was made in 6 literal 24 hour days is like sending them into the real world equipped with a Bronze Age education.”
“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.” Proverbs 1:7
According to Scripture, those who openly rebel against God are fools. That would include atheists who would promote scientific evidence as “proof” that there could not possibly be a 6 literal day Creation. Christians are not obligated to accept the explanations of those who are enemies of God. Yet, many of us have, and then we try to somehow mesh the two perspectives together so there is no conflict between “God created” and “billions of years after an explosion of ‘nothing'”
When human wisdom and research (especially anti-Christian scientific presumption) butts against God’s Word, it is prudent to be willing to back away from the “evidence” that supposedly supports the “no God” perspective–even if the well-educated people say it is stupid.
The entire downward slide into depravity starts with man’s disregard for what he can plainly see of God in creation (See Romans 1:21-23). Rebellious humanity replaces God’s perfect (yet sometimes impossible for us to understand) wisdom with that of fallen man (who arrogantly demands a satisfactory explanation for everything). And, according to Paul,”they became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.”
When we refuse to take God at His word, He allows us to be deceived by our own sense of intelligence. We get what we ask for and He steps aside so we can revel in our own pathetic sense of importance.
As far as changing the world goes–that happens at a heart level. One individual at a time and only by God’s grace. Becoming educated so as to enter the political arena and effect “favorable policies” may give us the illusion of change. But unless people are willing to obey God-centered laws because of a God-given desire, there will only be more strife.
oops, didn’t realize you were erasing the comment I was referencing.
Delete my statement if you consider it to be inappropriate.
(Heather: This discerning which comments to accept is tricky business 😉
Sarah Falk (to whom Heather responded) wrote:
“I said I would not comment again, but I must respond. How dare you insinuate that I’m not a Christian…or that I need to study the word of God more so I can do things the right way…like you of course. How dare you be so close minded. You are the one who started this big arguing debate thing. Any one who disagrees with you is wrong. I see that now. Good bye for good. I won’t get drawn into this petty little world. If you want to change things go into politics. Oh yeah…you probably don’t believe a woman has a right to go into politics. Well have your husband go into politics and change the world, but he will probably need a college degree. Schooling. An actual college degree that you can’t print off your computer after a homeschooling course made up by you. Your husband may or may not have a college degree. My point is that in order to be poised to really change things in this world you need a good, solid education. Teaching kids that the world was made in 6 literal 24 hour days is like sending them into the real world equipped with a Bronze Age education. “Again, spoken with brokenness of spirit and absolute humility…pleading, not arguing.” As you put it.”
I had deleted it because I want to try to keep discussions (among believers especially) respectful, even when we disagree. And when intentions begin to be purposefully twisted in order to insult, it is no longer honoring to God. Just a note for future commenters…
But since there was a response before I knew it, I’ll repost.
Wow, Heather, great illumination and evaluation! My parents think education is the end all be all too. I think God is the end all be all. Everyone has a god, like mentioned before in “Me, an idol worshiper”. Only God can take our affections away from anything but Him. But He does use His Word, Spirit and children to impart wisdom so that the barriers of the heart can be broken down. This is a great thread for those who lurk, but don’t comment as well as those of us who regularly comment. Thanks, Kelly
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge;fools despise wisdom and instruction. Let the wise hear and increase in learning,and the one who understands obtain guidance…How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple? How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing and fools hate knowledge? Proverbs 1:7,5,22
“I won’t blindly send her into any school, but I’m not ready to rule out public schools just yet.”
“Maybe it is because I am married to a man who is highly educated that we value education over religious fever.”
So enough for an introduction. Or maybe one more thought: It doesn’t matter what YOU think. And, it doesn’t matter what I think. It matters what GOD THINKS! And GOD says that there are wise and there are foolish. And this post abounds with both.
For example, the first commenter quoted above is demonstrating wisdom. How do I know this: because of God’s definition of those who are seeking instruction and guidance. She recognizes that she will not make a “blind” decision, therefore she will seek out wise council on the issue (albeit we still don’t know what conclusion she will arrive at.).
The second comment quoted is from a foolish person. Again, the Scripture decides this: fools despise wisdom and instruction. The post provide wisdom and instuction, however, it was unpalatable to this person, so they rejected it. Foolish.
Only the fool would look at the emperical statements above (original post — not comments) and deny the wisdom and instruction they contain. Only a fool allows emotion, politics, and personal conflict to deter them from true guidance and instruction. And only a fool would shun wisdom and guidance becuase the source was not palatable to them.
This post is not ultimately about whether or not your family will be homeschooling next year or even if there is definitive Scripture that commands such. This post provided evidence, wisdom, and guidance for parents to consider with wisdom so that they make prudent decisions for their families based on the FEAR OF THE LORD!
Many here are allowing personal experience, political bias and pragmatism to cloud the acceptance of wise guidance. Be warned. Read the result of those who are simple and foolish.
And regardless of your ultimate decision about how or who educates your children — DON’T GO INTO IT BLINDLY! Be wise!
And by the way, Hitler told the people of Germany, “I don’t need you, your children are in my schools.” (Not to invoke emotion. But to provide another example of social engineering being successful through public education).
For those who may not know:
Pragmatism: Doing what works.
Principle: Doing what is right.
Public school may “work” but is it RIGHT? Let the FEAR of the Lord and the quest for godly wisdom guide your family’s answer.
And before you offer and argument, go read Proverbs. Yep. All of it. It will cool your temper and temper your foolishness (hopefully).
My point is that a Christian can have a good experience and even thrive in a public school. I don’t think public schools are perfect, but they aren’t worth discarding entirely.
Nurse Bee-
How do you define “thrive”? I don’t see how a Christian can thrive in a Godless environment.
Several generations have been effectively primed to believe that it is possible for children from Christian families to attend public school and have good experiences or “thrive”.
But today’s children are not being trained in yesterday’s classrooms. Did our grandparents or parents (or some of US, for that matter) hear regularly of school shootings or drug deals or sexual harassment? Did they have to worry that they might get in trouble for gathering to pray on school grounds or for saying that homosexuality is a sin? Did so many teachers openly sneer at conservative/Christian/traditional American values? That doesn’t even touch the curricula alterations.
Perhaps, it is difficult to see the danger because the citizens of the US are proverbial “boiling frogs”? Actually, I’ve never seen that (and hope no-one has attempted such a cruel experiment). But we have a lot of frogs around here and I know for a fact that because they are “cold blooded”, they can often “comfortably” freeze to death if caught in a suddenly sharp drop of temperature…as the air gets colder, the sitting frog is less and less able to respond and can literally freeze to death with no indication at all that it was trying to fight for it’s life.
Most of you are assuming that you know what goes on in every public school and in every classroom. I feel like you have insulted my relationship with God. My husband and I walk closely with the Lord and prayerfully considered how we will educate our children year to year. I sure hope that Christians can thrive in a “godless” environment because it is the majority of the world that we live in. It is our desire for our children to take God with them to school. They have their Bibles in their backpacks and my kindergardener has even pulled it out and shared with his class. His Christian teacher lets him – he has freedom of speech. We have also had lessons on other religions and that fact that not everybody will believe God’s Word. We are open to what God has for our family year to year, even day to day. I am sorry to say that I have recently enjoyed this blog and am now feeling like it is not the place for me. I have heavy heart as I read many of the comments and receive tone that there is no way a Christian should send their kids to public school – if they have really studied scripture. It is not a black and white issue like you make it and it is possible on the topic of homeschooling you have turned many away. God works in different ways for different people. I am not against homeschooling and if God wants us to homeschool we will. We are listening.
Angie,
I hear your sincerity and your hurt…I really do. And yet, I must maintain my stand that it is a black and white issue. I may post separately on this point, but let me explain why I am so willing to make this stand, and I would humbly ask that you be open to read and consider what I write.
Let’s establish first: since Scripture clearly can’t spell out every command (i.e. “thou shalt not send thy kids to public school”), and yet we still maintain it holds principles for all of life, we must look to those principles for answers.
I’m going to list only a few…
“Blessed is the man that does not walk in the counsel of the ungodly”…(Let’s be clear…walking in the counsel is different from simply living among them, as you mentioned our presence in this world.)
A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher. (Note: In this debate, “teacher” is a broader term than the physical person in the classroom. It would encompass curriculum, philosophies, etc.)
“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.”
This is the tip of the iceberg. Mesh with these verses our duty as parents to “train up in the admonition of the Lord”, and the commands from Deut. 6, and we begin to get a very clear picture of our responsibility.
Now…the second hurdle is assessing what the pubic school system really is. You have asserted, basically, that not all schools are the same. But considering the number of teachers, changing from year to year, the ever-changing curriculum, the ever-changing laws (and a simple glance at the news reveals that the system is becoming increasingly hostile to Christianity, even if your school still allows some Bible-reading), is that hardly a safe gamble? (Not to mention the daily inundation of peer influence of which might make your hair curl.)
Consider again the admission of the VERY ones behind the government control of education:
“…we are winning the battle for the hearts and minds of children in the classroom over the rotting corpse of Christianity.”
It is certainly black and white when they speak this plainly, and we are forced to admit that.
Then, you mentioned “sending your children” as missionaries, if you will. Are we really admitting that children–babies both emotionally and spiritually–are prepared to do battle against the enemy by themselves? Even Jesus didn’t just send the disciples off until He had walked daily with them, instructing them in the Word. Nowhere in Scripture are we given any indication of sending our children as “salt and light” until we have done our job raising them as disciples. (On a personal note, I was “going to do battle” too, with my Bible and “Jesus Rules” notebooks. It took about 6 months before I was wallowing in the trenches with the rest of them. I’m still recovering 😉
Then I wanted to carefully address your comment “we’re listening”. I believe you are SO sincere in that. But I also believe Christians have erred on the side of “listening” when in fact, God has already spoken in His Word. All we have to do is listen there, and it becomes clear “what is that good and perfect will of God”. While I know there are many things not so clear and we must lean a little more on our “listening”, I feel the answers on this subject has more than been revealed in Scripture.
There are SO many more angles we haven’t even touched…like the unconstitutional invasion of government in the role of education.
I am speaking with the deepest love for you and other believers who have their children in public school. I would never say such things to insult or injure. (I have many friends and relatives whom I love DEARLY in the public school system. My FIL is a principal!) But I feel with ALL my heart, it must be said. I beg every Christian who is feeling angry toward these posts to dive into the living/talking Scripture as families.
Angie,
I don’t think anyone here has presumed to know what is going on in every classroom in every school district.
I do wish to offer an apology if that is how you read my comments. Sometimes my tone is not what I intend.
If God has you and your family in a certain place (and you know this because you have asked Him), it is not for any of us to say “you are sinning”. On the other hand, there are many parents who, for various reasons, have not even considered whether they are doing the right thing.
While I do not agree 100% with Kelly on everything, this blog has been a tremendous blessing in bringing to my attention things that I previously had never thought about but was just doing because “that is what is done”. After thinking, searching my Bible and praying, I still cannot say I line up with her completely on some issues. That does not make her wrong, it just means I have not at this time been given the same understanding. I’m okay with that as God has me working through some other things in my own life right now. My heart is still open to God’s leading in the areas which Kelly has determined to be black and white and I certainly appreciate her desire to obey the Lord in her own life. It encourages me to be more bold about living for Him myself.
If you feel the blog is not for you, that is understandable. But please do not read condemnation into the intent.
Mrs Lady Sofia, I think it’s awful that you had a bad experience working in a public school like that. My husband also works in a public high school. He loves it and thinks it’s great. IF our kids go to public school, they’ll go across state lines to go to school in that school district which they are allowed to do because their daddy works in that district.
The high school my husband works at still has a majority of Christian teachers, and the ones that aren’t Christians at least respect Christianity. This is a small redneck country town deep in the “Bible Belt” though.
There are student lead prayers before school functions, sometimes an adult prays too. The teachers find ways to tell interested students about the Lord. There are many Christian students who are good kids wanting to do right. They might not line up with our doctrinal beliefs, but they are saved and trying to serve the Lord.
This school has no uniform policy, just a dress code. Students who violate that dress code are in big trouble. The principal apparently bought bright pink duct tape to cover holes in jeans that are five inches below the knee or higher, and she also bought ridiculous looking smock tops for girls who come to school showing cleavage.
The kids at this school have a lot of opportunities that if I home school my kids, my kids would not get. My husband was home schooled most of his life and in Christian school once, I was in public school, home school and Christian school, and for both of us home schooling was by far the worst. And, regardless of what these other ladies say, that’s not because we are “weird” or have “weird friends”.
I read over some of the comments on this topic and I just wanted to share my experience.
My oldest son went to a public school until the middle of the 5th grade. We took him out because he was bored and also I felt like the school elevated the importance of education over the importance of family. SOOOO we started homeschooling with a Christian curriculum. It was then that I realized what had been missing. No matter how good the public school or secular private school, if they are not teaching EVERY subject with God at the center, teaching using a Christian world-view as a foundation for ALL learning then that school is not FIT for covenant children. Teaching children without GOD as the center of all is by default turning out a secular humanist. I know that many, many people “turned out OK” after a public education. This doesn’t change that fact that God wants more than “OK”. If that is our standard we are doing a disservice to our children. I believe in this country we worship the golden calf of education. I must believe that elevating ANYTHING above God is a sin, as stated in the 10 commandments.
I also didn’t know there was anything wrong with a secular education (which is really the issue, not public or private school or homeschool), until I had experienced a Christian education and now I can never go back.
Leslie,
“Teaching children without GOD as the center of all is by default turning out a secular humanist.”
Spot on. I was thinking about this angle this morning. For those who assert “our school is not like that”…I’m curious about the standard we’re using to measure.
As I addressed this issue, I was NOT taking into consideration each individual school and its teachers, because that’s not the measure. The institution itself–regardless of individual circumstances, is one of secular education, as you said, BY DEFAULT.
And as such, Christians must choose one over the other. The system exalts itself against God simply by ruling Him out of it.
Leslie – thank you for your thoughtful comment – I think many of us new to hs have a difficult time explaining ourselves, other than we had that V8 moment, that God just GAVE it to us. Like WW said, it’s in His word, in many contexts, in many specific instructions.
I’m not by any stretch a “model” Christian, but I am utterly convinced that no good can come of submersing our children in an educational culture bent on separating them from God and family, physically, philosophically, emotionally, etc. It’s not even masked – they’ve made it clear that’s their intent.
There are so many times I’ve heard other folks become defensive, thinking I’m suggesting that I’m a “better” Christian than they are. It’s really just the opposite – I’m confounded by people who are much better models of Christ than I who still choose to send their children to secular schools. Thank you for putting the words together, Kelly and others, it is a much better witness than my “duh, of course we homeschool.” Love.
to homeschool or not is between the parents and God. it is not for anyone to judge. to judge others is to place judgement on yourself. JMO
Mare,
Actually, your comment takes “judging” way out of context. Christians are commanded to admonish one another and teach and exhort and encourage. Christianity is not an isolated relationship; the body of Christ is connected, just as your physical body is. What one does affects the other tremendously. It is the arms business to care about what the leg is doing.