These reports never cease to bring me to a deeper awe of God’s infinite wisdom and the total lack of our own…
If you’ve read my blog long, you’re familiar with the regular debates we have over birth control. (The original title of the blog was “The Birth Control Debate”.)
But as a quick note to those who are new…
My deepest desire is simply to challenge Christians to THINK about the issue of birth control. (If you don’t believe in the sovereignty of God, this discussion is fairly irrelevant because we are coming from different world views.)
This conversation always leads to haggling over the hypothetical situation or trying to force a “sin” or “no sin” ruling…but leaving all those things aside, where is our starting point regarding the sanctity of life? Does it line up with Scripture? That’s my burden for believers.
- As a child of God, do I really believe in His sovereignty in my life…in life, period?
- Do I desire to search out and find the things that are pleasing to Him?
- Do I know about the origins of artificial birth control, and do I understand its implications physically, especially in regard to the unborn life?
- Am I willing to ask these questions and ponder the issue of children in light of God’s Word, even it it means turning a deaf ear to the culture’s “norms”?
The Austrian inventor of the birth control pill has declared that his co-creation has led to a “demographic catastrophe.” “The fall in the birth rate, he said, is an “epidemic” far worse, but given less attention, than obesity.“
Think about this in light of Scripture…how God has always “given us over” to the desires of our own hearts.
“God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper…inventors of evil…and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same,but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.” Romans 1:28-32
We (collectively) said, “We don’t want anymore children…except when we do”. So we invented “life control”. And God said, “Well, OK. I’ll let your own inventions solve that problem.” Look at this…
“We have sufficient data to state that one of the causes of masculine infertility in the West is the environmental contamination caused by the products of the ‘pill’.”
Isn’t that ironic? Infertility related to birth control.
The article also mentions that the pollution from birth control pills in the water supply is one of the leading causes of environmental contamination.
Hmm…we’re not hearing much about that from the EPA, are we? We’ve known that birth control causes all kinds of health problems like cancer, depression, obesity and many others. Add environmental pollution that poisons our water and further compromises our health. (Read this article from World Net Daily News for alarming information about this.)
And yet again, acknowledgement that the scientific community knows the pill is abortifacient and hides that from the public.
“Castellvi also pointed out that “this anti-implantation effect is acknowledged in scientific literature, which shamelessly speaks of an embryo loss rate. Curiously, however, this information does not reach the public at large.”
Rare instances where a couple solemnly, prayerfully makes choices regarding reproduction they feel are within God’s allowance for their lives? That’s not the problem.
Our problem is the flippancy by which we have taken “control” of life, not treated it as a sacred, miraculous occurrence, and have thus reduced the value of human life to a mere commodity I may choose to add to my assets when the time is “right”. And whenever we lean on our own wisdom instead of God’s, we reap the consequences that even His enemies can’t deny.
Excerpts from Pill Inventor Slams….Pill.
31 comments
Oh dear God. This hurts me so deeply to read this. Christian women do this. The lies we are told. The lies we live daily. Even after knowing the truth we continue. I read the many articles about the effect of this poison on our society, and I cannot help but cry out to God for mercy. For forgiveness. What have we done? What have I done…to my family. To my husband…my the unborn I may have rejected. All in the name of comfort and deception. How many babies have I thrown away? I was on birth control since the age of 14 (originally to regulate my menstrual cycles..which it never did) but even after I became sexually active (or I should say promiscuous, a loose woman) I continued to take bc. Because of my selfishness and sin and sheer stupidity, how many innocent lives have I destroyed? Even after being married, “we wanted to wait till…”, how many babies have I flushed away? How can we continue to do this?? When will we (Christians!) wake up and say “not my will, Father!”? God help us. Forgive us.
Thank you for continuing to bring the truth to light, Kelly.
I really don’t see any form of birth control as valid, including NFP. The ones that kill babies are worst, of course. The other choices either interfere with the marital union or mutilate our bodies which God has called his temples. So I don’t see myself using birth control unless my life is clearly at stake.
As to people who do have to make very difficult decisions, I think it comes down to this: If your starting point is looking for an excuse not to have more children, no reason will be acceptable to God. If your starting point is that children are truly blessings, from the first to the fourteenth, then you will probably be able to come to a conclusion pleasing to God.
I understand the points reflected here. I myself was totally open to any children I received. When I got married, I never thought to even control having children…and didnt have internet then to know of all the debates. BUT…and there is always a but, lol….for practical purposes in ‘living out’ this issue, what do people in marriages do where one is mentally stressed to the point of not being able to care for the children she already has? what about when hubby has a drinking, or gambling, or pornography problem? because i can give statistics that show percentages of CHRISTIAN men who have these daily struggles and are not overcoming-and we KNOW this affects the dynamic of the family.
I prescribe that certain things already must be in order for a family to be able to carry out what is contained in these posts. I also know in my onw life, when God wants to uncover a layer of issues within a person…he sometimes re-routes a ‘truth’…..Jesus even ‘disobeyed’ Gods laws to fulfill a ‘bigger picture’ kind of truth. I do not see how this ‘minimizes’ truth or disses the Sovereignty of God, as some here might say it does.
AM,
Several things come to mind in response to the thoughts you brought up…
I’m going to be as gentle as I can with this one, because I want to be sensitive to women who are in abusive marriages or whose husbands have extreme problems like you mentioned.
As the post stated, we are talking about a general idea that Christians should carry about children. We are addressing “starting points” not “what if” situations.
At the same time, there are principles in Scripture pertaining to how we should approach marriage to prevent some of the painful situations we find ourselves in. Now I’m NOT saying that if we follow some formula we will not encounter difficulties.
But again, IN GENERAL, when believing families follow wisdom from God’s Word in approaching marriage, it eliminates SO MANY of these problems.
So when we address issues, do we approach truth from “where we are”, or do we hold to a basic standard and go from there? Depending on God’s grace to sustain me in the cruible?
I’m challenging Christians to approach every area from a biblical standpoint…unfortunately there are difficult circumstances that have to be sorted through. I want to be compassionate about that without changing what I believe is still a foundational starting point for believers.
That was kind of rambly, but maybe you get my idea.
I’m not a very pragmatic person.
As far as “Jesus breaking God’s laws”…we mostly see that in the Sabbath laws…His point was that one law “trumped” another in some instances. It is “lawful to do good” on any day of the week. I’m not sure the use of artificial birth control, which has a repuation of doing harm, could be categorized with His example.
Kelly, I also have a question.
My aunt and uncle have three beautiful children, all boys, all conceived using artificial means of conception (for whatever reason, it is extremely difficult for her to conceive naturally), but she also takes birth control. Obviously it is not to prevent conception for her, but if she does not take the oral contraceptive, she will not have the regular cycles her body ought to have, and she has been told that could give her cancer. (I’m not sure I buy that, because they prescribe bc pills that actually inhibit menstruating to four times a year) But that is what she and my uncle have been told. She does want more children though. So how do you handle that sort of situation? She truly believes this is something her body needs to be “normal”, and was the same reason I was initially put on the pills.
Hello! I am so glad I found your blog!
I am a thirty-nine year mother of two wonderful children. I started having bleeding problems when my second was two years old. The doctor put me on the pill to help control my period due to bleeding. We didn’t think we would want anymore children an I thought that was okay. Now I am hearing that this might be a sin in my life?
I hope you don’t think I am not an educated women I am I did not know that I would or could kill an innocent life? Could you give me more information on this…I go to the doctor next month for a yearly exam. I would like to see if it would do me any harm to get off the pill right now. Please pray that my husband will understand my reasons.
Renee
mrs.hester AND Renee…
Since both your questions were similar…
I’m certainly not an expert on medical problems regarding menstruation. But I would be very skeptical that bc pills are the only way to control these problems. I would be prone to do a lot of research on alternatives.
Additionally, you may be interested to know that research shows that the more periods a woman has in her lifetime the HIGHER her chance of developing reproductive cancers. This may not apply to irregular periods, but certainly does indicate that pregnancy/nursing is a much healthier state for the body.
All said, anything that has abortifacient qualities is serious and would cause me to really dig and research for alternative answers.
Oh, Kelly, I agree wholeheartedly that when people follow Scripture it eliminates SO MANY of these problems. Thing is, beginning from a ‘starting point’ for me now, becasue a ‘what if’ came into play………makes it tough. Esp given that if my husband continues to use drugs, i abstain from sex as there are issues with needles, sharing, extra-marital affairs, etc.
I also wanted to add that I do understand you are beginning with a foudnational point. You have not lost me there, but I still wanted to interject….I mean, what would be the answer for people who dont have marriage right (and I see this a lot!) to have an openness to Gods Sovereignty over life….it just does not flow.
AM,
Honestly, that one stumps me. I feel deeply for you and others in these situations, but I do not know where to start offering counsel….
Does anyone else have good advice?
mrs.hester & Renee – I wanted to share just a little bit. My mom, going through much, much bleeding in menopause was basically given the choice of endoblation(sp?) and a hysterectomy. She was on high-dose bc pills which 'helped' but didn't cure her. I think it's mostly due to fibroids that she has such difficulties. Sometimes she would bled for months and be basically house-bound due to quantity. 🙁
Anyway, she really didn't want to go with either of those options after she had researched them, yet she was on the verge of being hospitalized for sheer anemia. I'm not sure of all the titles she pored over, but she ended up changing her diet and adding things like evening primrose oil and flax seed oil.
*She* ended up getting her bleeds under control. She still has the fibriods – BUT has just now reached the point where she wants to figure out if she can get rid of those (they usually go away after you stop cycling but hers are persistant). One opion is juice fasting that she has mentioned to me. She is so healthy today it's not super-high on her list of priorities!
Her doctor can't believe that she is basically post-menopause without some form of surgery.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that sometimes, medically your solutions are limited, when diet might help. It does take longer to see a diet change work, which is why I think it's the least popular choice sometimes!
I just wanted to share this. Not that you ladies are dealing with the exact same thing, but to encourage you to perhaps "think outside the box". Watching my mom has been the greatest encouragement and inspiration to me!
God bless,
Ashley
http://www.homesteadblogger.com/Jonash2004
Kelly, bless your heart, seriously. Your blog attracts a lot of “what ifs”…myself included! The “what-ifs” are endless and many of them heartbreaking…indeed some are innocently reaping the widespread sin of our culture and people as a whole. Yet there are also “what ifs” that are just simple misguidance.
I will say thank you to you for discussing information that seems to be purposefully hidden so that people may at least consider it. This post is particularly troubling.
“Additionally, you may be interested to know that research shows that the more periods a woman has in her lifetime the HIGHER her chance of developing reproductive cancers”
I am so glad you mentioned this Kelly! My father in law’s new tactic to try to convince us to stop having children is to tell my husband that he is going to “wear my body out”, “break it”, or whatever. He isn’t a Christian, and so trusting in God’s sovereignty isn’t something that he understands. At least now we have a medical rebuttal.
Thanks!
This isn’t necessarily in response to the article, but to the repsonses of people (young Christian woman) who think that ALL CHRISTIANS should have as many children as humanly possible and that God will give.
I do am not an advocate of Birth Control. However, I do believe that NFP needs to be implemented for many Christians throughout the world. I work in Peru in extreme poverty. Poverty that most have only seen on the pages of National Geographic. The other day, I was in my dear friends home which is a shack in a squatter’s village. She has 4 children (ages 13 -3) and husband who took off about a year ago. She lives in a shack made of tarps, cardboard, chicken wire with dirt floors. 5 of them sleep in 1 bunk-bed. They have no running water, no bathroom, sink, furniture, etc.. and the mom has to leave the kids for 12-15 hours alone (often overnight in a very dangerous area) so that she can go make money so that they can “eat.” Not so that they can have nice stuff, but just so that they can survive. They live off of about $3 a day. And it is no exaggeration that her house is by far the worst I have EVER seen. The bugs, fleas, urine and lack of food are beyond describable in a blog comment section. They are many times that her children only eat 1 meal a day. She is doing everything she can to survive. And she lives in a neighborhood where almost every situation is similar, but also filled with drugs, alcohol, incest and other unspeakable acts. My question to ponder is, should these people be pro-creating without thought? Do you really belive they are “sinning” if they use NFP to prevent a pregnancy that they cannot care for? They don’t live in a comfy house with a steady income, a reliable spouse, and modern conveniences. They live fist to mouth each day. I am not saying that God does not provide for them, but is it wise for these people to continue having 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 kids in a shack and then having to leave them to work and live in the slums alone. These are real life situations that I see EVERYDAY and it would be a detriment to many of these families to have more children that they cannot care for; children that are molested by neighbors when there parents are out working to provide food. These are not hypothetical situations – they are real life situations that my husband and I deal with on a daily basis here on the mission field. I think that NFP is the answer. Thoughts?
phamilyof6,
That’s a very provocative question…I think I’ll let others answer while I ponder it awhile 😉
Just to clarify, in my previous comment when I said “what-ifs” I meant real life situations, not hypothetical.
Phamilyof6’s account of this woman’s life is pretty sobering and one where I find it hard to see how NFP would be a sin…or even where non abortive methods such as condoms would be a sin.
Also what she said in describing the charmed life of someone who lives in comfort is something I struggle with; I personally feel I have legitimate problems that some women do not, making it easier for them be open to 25 kids.
Granted, it is true many people have gone off the deep end with preventing children. Yet even still with the transforming powers of Jesus, sin is ugly and weighs some people down with unfair consequences. I don’t claim to have any answers.
This is why I had once mentioend that trying to live an ideal life, under un-ideal circumstances does seem almost impossible. Not as in “with God all things ARE possible”…but moreso as, because things were NOT right, and sin DID enter the world, the ‘ideal’ God desired in the beginning, essentially went out the door. And possibly each of us sits here with a different spin on our life, some done to ourselves through our own personal sin, some done to us by the sin of those in the world around us, and some from the Sin of long ago, by people we never knew. In any event, it has weaved a very complicated problem. I can desire to live under the ideal as much as I want, but everyday I still wake up to THIS REALITY. So does the woman in Peru, with 4 kids. That is why I have prescribed that perhaps different things as these can be sin for one person, but not for another. Maybe they were ONCE sinful for everyone, but now time has lapsed, with, more complications put in the way….so what was once ideal and possible for everyone under the sun, now is not? Heck, it may not even be good and righteous for everyone udner the sun, now. I do not see how God could hold the womn in Peru accountable for using a condom, if her husband were to come back. I do understand the concept that part of the blessing and peace and tranquility within the marriage bed is never ‘worrying’ or being fretful about the natural occurences of man and wife being intimate together, and as an IDEAL-a blissful, perfect picture before God-i am ALL FOR THAT. I am not saying that to make excuse for some of us who COULD have a mind alteration, and heart change on the issue, but willfully choose not to. I am saying that as giving peace to those who walk walks we dont know everyday, in their reality-and still give them hope. Still make them feel that they are as valuable and worthy to the body of Jesus as anyone. I know I come from a different angle, and I do not wish to ‘dilute’ Kelly’s truths here. I truly dont. I am just trying to get us all to think, with Gods help-on how to deal with society as it is today, in its reality. Not how we SHOULD have approached the issue long ago, when things werent quite so twistged. But now, TODAY, they are a mess. Isnt it possible that the woman in Peru would be held accoutnable differently, because God has put her in a position that calls for His wisdom-day by day-to see her through-and that because certain things are not ‘in order’ in her home….and that she is enduuring much suffering-that she will be dealt with differently, as God works daily in her life?
Thank You for listening, all.
Authentic
Kelly, thank you for this thought-provoking and sensitive post. I really appreciate what you said about wanting to challenge Christians without labelling “sin” or “no sin”–dealing with the core of the issue, rather than the trappings of what it looks like. I, too, have this calling on my heart to get Christian questioning their family planning methods–it’s such an important aspect of our lives both privately and communally; how could we take any method for granted without careful consideration??
Again, thank you,
Bethany
Back to the bleeding issue: I had a lot of normal bleeding connected with menopause. My mother-in-law had warned me about this, so I was not too worried. I have always kept up with doctor’s checkups, so I knew that I didn’t have fibroids or other medical problems.
My mother-in-law’s doctor recommended red wine and things high in iron, for the heavy bleeding associated with menopause. So, I drank a non-alocholic red wine, and just stayed in bed if I felt dizzy. It only happened a couple of times, when I would have had a normal period.
If it had continued, or if I had passed out, I would have sought medical help. Subsequent internal exams have showed that I am still normal and without problems.
This is another good reason for even an older woman to be a keeper at home if she can. If I’d had to work, I would have felt like I needed to ask my doctor for a possibly unnecessary hyterectomy just so I could go to work (the bleeding was more like gushing).
But then it went away, and I was all done cycling. Many older women will tell you about this, and most of the time, it is normal.
It is still worth checking out with a doctor, though, who may recommend a necessary hysterectomy for medical reasons like fibroids, etc., that cause problems.
Oh, and I never knew that BC pills were abortative. I found out about it here on this blog. My only comfort, when it comes to all the BC I used, whether it was pills or something else, is that it was always slapdash and haphazard at best (I never could remember to take those pills two days in a row!), and it would have been “easy” for a Sovereign God to have slipped in another child or two. 🙂
I have felt very guilty the last three years… I have been on the pill and now I know why? If I would have known 11 years ago I would have never have started taken it.
I really don’t believe I will start bleeding heavy again, I think this was a quick fix for the doctor. I had No! idea what I was doing.
I would have loved for God to bless me…and now that I am near 40 I still would love for God to bless me. I told my husband that I am getting off the pill and I hope he understands…I don’t think he does quite yet.
I have had depression for many years and I am now seeing that the pill causes depression? Where have I been? Thank you God for openning my eyes!!
I am still a little concerned about getting pregnant at my age any words of wisdom???
I am sure my husband will want to use some from of birth control but I don’t ever be on the pill again!
Now what??
Renee
AM,
I hear exactly what you are saying, and know all about people “being where they are”. Perhaps this will shed a different light on the very reason I write these posts…
I am not a counselor and am ill-equipped to mentor people who are in broken relationships. I, myself, came from brokenness and see it all around me in my family and elsewhere.
My heart for this blog is really aimed at Christian women who haven’t given these issues much thought, in hopes to HELP SOMEONE AVOID PITFALLS.
In other words, I know these posts aren’t very helpful to those in the middle of broken families, because I guess that’s not where I feel my calling lies.
But if I can shed light on some truth that might help a family live a more “ideal” life–following principles of God’s Word, change their course before they reap consequences that are not God’s ideal, that’s where my intent is.
I know that doesn’t help those like you who are dealing with serious brokenness in your lives, and I am so sorry.
But I don’t want you to feel like these posts are meant to make people feel bad for being where they are.
In a nutshell, I can’t address everyone. Because I am reaping so many consequences of wrong choices in my own life, my passion lies with holding up what I believe IS an ideal of God’s Word…not perfection, but a principle of truth that brings blessing to God’s people.
Renee,
I admire you for such an honest look at your situation. I think I would start with talking to your husband about your concern over the issue of BC…he may feel the same way after realizing some of the hidden truths of artificial contraception.
We cannot possibly begin to understand why God in His infinite wisdom and knowledge creates a child and brings it into extreme poverty or into an abusive family. BUT He does.
Ahaz, king of Judah (2 Kings 16), on all accounts was a horrible man, and an abhorrent father (made his son pass through the fire- 2Chron.16:3) By human reason his wives should never have let him reproduce. AND YET, God in His infinite wisdom and mercy created Hezekiah and gave him to this wretched man, and by God’s grace Hezekiah went on to be one of the greatest kings of all time. “He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. For he clung to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses.” 2 Chron. 18:5,6
And what a tragedy it would have been if the Israelites would have said, “There is not enough food or water while we are wandering around in this wilderness, so let’s just not reproduce.” A whole generation would have passed, none seeing the promised land.
Thank you LORD Jesus that they cried out to you and your grace was sufficient for them. And I pray for all those in similiar situations in desperate need of your provisions PLEASE Lord God remind them to cry out to you, and show them that You own the cattle on a thousand hills, and that You are the God that can use ravens to feed your people if You so will. And please LORD God out of the ashes of broken families all over our land raise up a generation that will praise and serve You. LORD You are the Savior, please save us. In Jesus, Creator of all life, Precious name, Amen.
phamilyof6,
Echoing some of the beautiful sentiments Jeanette mentioned, the fallenness of humanity with all its ills is difficult for us to combine with His sovereignty.
Like Jeanette mentioned, if you read in Exouds, one verse points out that “the more they were oppressed, the more they multipled in number…and God blessed their midwives.”
I find that verse so intriguing as it gives us a picture that is so counter to our flesh and “reasoning”.
I don’t have all the answers. But I know that if we believe the fundamental truth is that God ordains life, then at what point are we given authority to override that truth? How hard is too hard? Mother Teresa rebuked those who suggested she teach the poverty-stricken people of India about birth control.
She said, “every child is a child of God and was supposed to be here.”
Again, that’s hard on our tendency to want to avoid pain and hardship. I hate to see children suffer. Everyone does.
So I still don’t offer an answer, but I think it’s worth it to ponder how God worked in difficult circumstances in Scripture, and consider that maybe the temporal circumstances of suffering, while it’s all we see, is just part of a larger plan we cannot see.
Phamily of 6- what can we do to help these people in Peru?
I keep thinking of the post from awhile back that profoundly affected me:
http://generationcedar.blogspot.com/2007/04/one-of-things-that-most-profoundly.html
I can totally understand where you are coming from.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a co-worker a few days ago. I won’t get into the entire conversation, but she was saying that it’s sometimes more stressful to be at home with her children than to come to work (I work at an elementary school). She has two boys, whom she states are, “very active.” I then pointed-out to her that some women have five or six boys to raise who also might be considered, “very active” as well. Her response, “Well, it’s HER FAULT that she got into that mess!” Then she gave a slight chuckle.
I didn’t think about this conversation much until today (before I even read your post). How could it be, “her fault” for having children? A woman can’t control the amount of children she has UNLESS she is using BC. So in effect, my co-worker was stating that because these women who have more children get into “messes” is because she didn’t use BC to stop the amount of children.
All I can think after this comment is, “Ouch!” I often hear negative comments about children at my job, and I wonder why these people have them in the first place. Comments like, “They are expensive,” “They are busy,” “Two is quite enough thank you,” Or, “With my luck, I’ll probably end-up with another boy,” it’s no wonder people are in favor of BC for the wrong reasons.
As a childless woman who is trying to recover from the lies about feminism regarding children and family, these are very discouraging comments.
As a final note, I find it disturbing how aborting babies can be considered “normal” and “acceptable” to society, yet those who wish to nurture more than the average amount of children are considered “disturbed.” I find something very wrong with this picture.
Lady Sophia,
You have a very sensible and, I think, clear understanding. I was just having a conversation about how a woman is considered strange for doing what comes naturally. How can that be right? Am I strange for urinating when the urge comes? Sorry, but making a point. Is it any different? Especially considering that a life is in question.
So I ask, can we embrace the widespread use of BC and still maintain that a woman who doesn’t use is is normal?
In my estimation, once we accepted it, the *normal* thing became weird. And we claim to be intelligent 😉
Just Money:
God bless you for having the courage to stop! I also used birth control for a year, because everyone my husband and I knew counseled us to. It is the one thing in my life I most regret. My husband had agreed to three children, which was my lower limit (I’ve always wanted a big family). But after we learned that the pill can kill babies–once I’d already stopped–we reevaluated our position. Now he is open to as many children as God will give us. I hope that you and your husband can also welcome another baby one day!
Perhaps people are misreading what I said, and perhaps I was a little bit unclear. I do not believe birth control is ever good, and I do not believe that there is often an excuse for men and women in this country to use it. In America, and in most other industrial nations, our children will not starve. We might not be able to afford a “big enough” house, or for each child to have his own room, but our children will not die of hunger.
Are there situations that are so extreme that birth control is necessary, as the lesser of two evils? Yes. I believe I made that clear. In my case, I could not conceive of using it unless my life were in real danger if I were to become pregnant. That means there is a circumstance under which I would use it. Yes, I have a wonderful, loving husband with a good job.
What I said about other people using birth control was that if they started from a position of looking for an excuse to stop having children, I did not believe their excuses would be acceptable to God, but if they started from a position that children were blessings to be desired, it is possible they could come to a conclusion that honored God. I do not believe that birth control is never an option for anyone, especially those in extreme poverty.
Read the article on the birth control pills contaminating the environment, and it was scary, scary, scary…
Thanks for the latest on the dangers of the pill. It’s always so sobering to see the long term ramifications on chemical choices like this. Also, the inventor of the pill was Austrian not Australian. Take care. Sherry in Pagosa