It seems we’ve taken a slight detour in our passionate discussion about school 🙂 This is good, though. This is my very intent for the blog…to challenge, “hash out” and sharpen our thinking.
A reader submits the following about government and education:
“…as long as the government sees fit to continue social programs for those who can’t provide for themselves, they’d be absolutely silly to allow each child to be educated in any way the parents see fit. As much as we hate to see our children’s education as a business, or to see them as products, it’s actually a pretty good comparison. Our children are the future of our country, and as that, the government has a stake in how they turn out. Not having any control over your finished product is bad business sense. … I’m not saying that all or even most parents will screw up their children’s education, but there will always be the folks who aren’t trying hard enough or are just flat out lazy. Those people are going to cost the government more money in the form of welfare and other social programs when their kids can’t find jobs to support themselves. …If the nation had no stake whatsoever in a child’s proper education, I could see that it would be inappropriate for them to “interfere,” as it were. But children are the future of our country, and I’m glad the government doesn’t take lightly the idea that all children should get a complete, standardized, and verifiable education.”
Admittedly, I am NOT politically savvy enough to do a decent job addressing this subject. So, if any of you out there have input, now would be a good time 🙂
BUT, let me say emphatically, that this is such a slippery slope…and honestly, I am so dumb, I didn’t really know there were any Christians who felt this way!
I submit an article with a great summary (said much better than I could say it) of how far we’ve strayed from the original intent of government, especially in the realm of education. I wish I could remember his whole argument, but I heard Geoffrey Botkin say, “Government education is illegal…absolutely unconstitutional”.
The following article (click on the link below) begins with a quote from the 1882 educational platform of the Democratic party:
“FREEDOM of education, being an essential of civil and religious liberty . . . must not be interfered with under any pretext whatever,” We are opposed to state interference with parental rights and rights of conscience in the education of children as an infringement of the fundamental . . . doctrine that the largest individual liberty consistent with the rights of others insures the highest type of American citizenship and the best government.”
It’s a short article and very worth the read…
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/10/17/big_brother_at_school/
To address a few of the things mentioned from the reader’s comment…
Frankly, I think our nation fared MUCH better before government regulations were imposed on education. A large percent of our (brilliant) forefathers were homeschooled, under the instruction of their parents.
We commit a grave offense by trying to separate knowledge from the truth of God and His laws. Remember, He is the Creator. And thus, He created knowledge. And so, He gives the perfect instructions for acquiring knowledge…”The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom/knowledge.”
So what we get is, if parents fear the Lord, the proper education will follow. I know that seems too simple to our minds, but that is the miraculous, supernatural reality.
We don’t have to worry that if the government doesn’t control what we teach, that everyone will end up dumb and unable to function as citizens. For centuries, the earth has thrived without gov-controlled education. In some opinions, it has thrived far better.
And as far as the gov having the right to control because they provide programs..that’s another can or worms…the programs are a big problem too! When we get away from God’s way of doing things…everything snowballs, and we’re breaking one rule to cover another.
I don’t mean to be sarcastic here, but I’m afraid those of us who agree with the reader’s comment do so because we are the product of government-engineered education…that’s how they want us to think.
66 comments
“I don’t mean to be sarcastic here, but I’m afraid those of us who agree with the reader’s comment do so because we are the product of government-engineered education…that’s how they want us to think.”
Eek, I didn’t realize we were stooping to THOSE lows. So now my opinions are based on the fact that I was educated in public school, and I’ve been indoctrinated.
Ouch.
I think I’ll bow out of this conversation now.
The federal government has no place in education since they just want obedient servants for their elitist swamp.
They only bought there way into community based education with money programs like giving drugs. They expanded the money with more control.
Most people educated before 1975 still have some brain matter left since they did not receive so many mind control drugs or brainwashing.
Mrs. Sara,
I certainly do not want to offend you…please know I that I appreciate your thoughts and debate…I would miss you if you leave 🙂
I made the statement I made because there was a point in time (before the gov. schools skewed the teaching of our Constitution) where people clearly understood the limited power of gov…and they clearly understood our freedoms as they were intened. We are no longer being taught that…so, while yes, I do believe your opinions have been strongly formed by a faulty institution (just as many of mine, most of which I’m trying to re-shape :-), I did not mean that comment to be hurtful or condescending.
Accept my apologies if it was
“I do believe your opinions have been strongly formed by a faulty institution”
I’ll have to ask my husband to refresh me on fallacies so I know exactly which type that is. But just because I’ve been educated in a non-religious public school doesn’t necessarily mean that the conclusions I draw regarding religious schooling are false.
I like to think of myself as someone who’s able to filter out logical arguments from illogical ones, as well as someone who’s at least passably acquainted with proper Biblical exegesis. We’ve had a number of people on your blog in the last few days who have stated that homeschooling is the only (or best) way to be in God’s will regarding education of our children. I certainly understand people who think it’s the IDEAL for children, and I might be persuaded to agree, it may be the ideal. But to go so far as to call it Biblically mandated in every circumstance is not something that’s been proven to me using scripture, at least not in these posts. Yes, we are to teach our children God’s laws. Yes, it is best to saturate children in scripture and Biblical guidance in every area of their lives. But the best evidence you and some other ladies commenting here have given against private CHRISTIAN schooling is personal experiences that may or may not have anything to do with other Christian schools in this country. And then there’s the scripture that says parents are supposed to teach their children. It doesn’t say, “ONLY parents should teach children,” and it certainly doesn’t say “Only parents should teach their kids all subjects required by government mandate.” It says parents, teach your kids God’s laws. And I think most Christian parents are doing a great job at teaching their children, even if they’re not the ones teaching math.
Kelly,
Amen! Thank you for the post and link to the article! I wholeheartedly agree with your comments.
My mom purchased a book for me a few years ago that she recommended. I haven’t had the time to read it yet, but you have inspired me to educate myself. (Hey – it’s not to late for me to be homeschooled :)) It’s written by a former New York state and city teacher of the year titled The Underground History of American Education. The subtitle is An Intimate Investigation Into the Prison of Modern Schooling.
I always assumed that, for a christian, Deuteronomy 6 would seal the deal as to what God wants from us concerning our children’s education. I feel inadequate approaching the education debate from a secular standpoint.
OK, there may be a slight misunderstanding about what particular opinions I was referring to…I was specifically talking about the argument of the gov. having a right to control what parents teach their children, as being the “opinions shaped by a faulty institution”. And I believe, truly, that there was a time in history where very few, if any one believed this way. I’m saying that gov. has gained control, slowly, over time, in areas that were never meant to be theirs, and they have successully convinced many of us that they have a right to it. Constitutionally, this is wrong.
I was NOT referring to your other opinions in general. I would never bash your opinions….but the above argument, I feel, is much more “factually arguable” than everything else we’ve discussed.
“But to go so far as to call it Biblically mandated in every circumstance is not something that’s been proven to me using scripture, at least not in these posts.”
If you can show me from the Bible, and the Bible only, where God would allow for the institutionalized schooling model, I will most humbly admit my folly.
Purely informational question from a parent who may homeschool someday: What kind of role does the govt play in the lives of homeschooling parents? Are you required to submit a curriculum to the state? Do your kids have to take the state standardized tests? What is the extent of their interference (if that is an accurate term)? Thanks.
“If you can show me from the Bible, and the Bible only, where God would allow for the institutionalized schooling model, I will most humbly admit my folly.”
I’m afraid that if you’re going to say that homeschooling is Biblically mandated and public schooling is not, YOU’RE the one who will have to provide proof of your case. You’re the one challenging public schooling, I’m the one arguing inclusion of all modes of schooling into the canon of Biblically-acceptable forms of education.
Alli,
Every state is different, requiring different regulations. Thankfully, in my state, the only thing required is that we are under a “covering” which can be another Christian school or a church that has established themselves as a covering. We must also submit (to our covering) an attendance record.
The internet is a great place to find your state’s homeschooling laws, or you can probably find out from your local board of education.
Dear Quinn,
In explanation, the text you’re using to prove that homeschooling is best is a mandate TO do something, not prohibiting something. In order to say that anything other than homeschooling is wrong, you’ll have to find me a scripture PROHIBITING public or private school. I hope that makes sense, and I hope you understand my tone on this. I’m not angry, and I’m not trying to belittle you or your opinions. I merely want to include the rules of logic in our debate.
In Christ,
Sara
I was specifically talking about the argument of the gov. having a right to control what parents teach their children, as being the “opinions shaped by a faulty institution”.
Kelly, thanks for the clarification. I haven’t really addressed that one yet, but I will soon. 🙂
Mrs. Sara,
I think we have so many lines of debate here, that “our lines are getting crossed”.
I would definitely not say that it is biblically wrong to send your children to Christian school. Difficult to guard their hearts, but not wrong. Please understand that!
I don’t feel the same, though, about public school, not because of a “chapter and verse” in the Bible, but because the whole of Scripture warns us to avoid the wicked, flee from sin, guard our hearts, study to show ourselves approved unto God, walk not in the counsel of the ungodly…I could go on.
We are then responsible before the Lord for protecting our children and making sure that they follow the above admonitions.
So we must answer the question: if you are against God, who are you for? You cannot serve two masters, right? Everyone serves someone. And Scripture says we’re of the light, or we’re of darkness. The Bible makes it CLEAR how God feels about those who become a part of a group that serves other gods besides Him. Is there such a thing as being “spiritually neutral”?
I think we can safely say the Bible proves that there is not. If so, then when the public school institution says outright–God is banned from here–what kind of institution did they become? A neutral one? Or one that has become “a servant of Satan” by their pure rejection of God?
Again, I want to be sensitive to people who find themselves in uniquely difficult circumstances and have to put their children in public school for a season (I know of some heart-breaking situations where parents have been forced to do this, although they do not believe it is a good thing).
I know God looks at the heart. I know He gives grace. But to just flippantly send your children there, assuming the “innocence of public education” into the counsel of “the ungodly” (as an institution mind you, not individual teachers–there are some GREAT ones)…I don’t know. It just scares me.
And perhaps the issue here is that it is not SIN to do so; perhaps it is simply that we will reap some the curses of making such a decision.
I can see that if you really do not believe the government’s system of education is corrupt, these arguments will seem absurd and extreme. But if you dive into things, and see how corrupt the underworkings of the system are, I just don’t see how a Christian parent could choose it with any other option.
Quite an informative and revealing article about the National Education Association…if you think the public school system is neutral, read this article:
http://www.natvan.com/american-dissident-voices/adv031393.htmlealing
I may address this article tomorrow on a post.
I see what you’re saying, Kelly. As I’ve stated before, I don’t believe public schooling is the best option for Christians, but again, that’s going to depend on the kids. On the next post down, my sister in law, Alli, talks about my husband, who she was friends with in high school, who was a Christian and was definitely “salt and light” to her and her friends, resulting in salvation and the avoidance of a number of the temptations she was facing. My husband’s parents raised him well, and they knew that at that time, he was ready to be true salt and light in his environment. And if it weren’t for him being IN public school, my sister in law says, she doesn’t know WHERE she’d be now. Now, this is a personal experience, so I’m not going to canonize it, but you can see where having strong Christian kids in public schools can be lifesaving for those kids who desperately need God.
I’m glad to hear that you’re not against Christian schools like some of your readers are. I do know that if we choose to send our children to Christian school, that we will be missing those 7-8 hours a day with them, but at the same time, my husband and I do feel that our chosen school is a safe environment, and that it’ll be a beneficial place for them to learn and exercise their God-given gifts. If we end up having children who we believe wouldn’t flourish in the type of environment a Christian school could afford, we will definitely come up with some other options. But either way, we’re going to be heavily involved in their education and formation. It’s our job.
I think most of what I was railing against was the idea that people who send their kids to Christian school aren’t following God’s will. Or that the Bible clearly states that all kids should be homeschooled. It doesn’t. I’m glad you clarified, I think I understand your position a little bit better, and I hope you’ll forgive any misunderstanding!
As for the public school issue, I do believe that public school is a worse place now that prayer has been removed from classrooms. The statistics for the type of issues that arose in schools after that happened are really interesting… I can’t call it a causal relationship, but I do believe that the denigration of religion had at least a small part in the problems. On the other hand, I don’t believe that public schools are quite the bastion of atheism and evil that some might believe. I see that there are problems, but I also see a number of Christian teachers who have been free to speak of their religion in the classroom, students who have organized prayer meetings before school (I was part of such a group in high school), and an environment that was more open than you might expect to Christian ideas.
Thanks for the article, too. I’m gonna take some time tonight to give it a good read! 🙂
The link I gave for the NEA article is wrong…use this one instead.
http://www.natvan.com/american-dissident-voices/adv031393.html
Mrs. Sara,
Oh dear, I hope that I am not misunderstood when I gave my experience of Christian schools. Because of our experience, we would not send our children to a Christian school, but there are many many other reasons that we homeschool–it’s not just that reason. And I did say that not all Christian schools, teachers, kids who attend them, and the like are like that, but perhaps my disclaimer was lost. 🙂
I do want to distance myself, however, from any association with the notion that it is Scripturally wrong to send your children to a Christian school. I do not believe that way at all. Sorry if I gave that impression! I was only providing a minuscule example of my experiences to explain why I felt the way I felt, not to make a blanket statement about all Christian schools or whether we ought to or not attend them.
http://www.hslda.org
You can find all your state’s homeschooling laws on this website for those who are interested. I’m proud to be a member of this organization.
Mrs. T,
I understand you, thanks for clarifying! 🙂
Sara
Mrs. Sara,
“you’ll have to find me a scripture PROHIBITING public or private school”
I think I’ll pull out the old argument, “the Bible doesn’t specifically say “thou shalt not watch pornography”, but no Christian would say God approves such behavior” for this one.
From a secular standpoint, yes the burden of proof lies on me since I am essentially saying an absolute. However we are dealing with God’s Holy Bible in which he says in Rev.22:18,19
If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
So I’d like to be sure I’m not doing adding. Since I’ve yet to be directed to verses that would allow for sending our children to school, all I can do is share just a few of the verses that we used to determine God’s will for spiritual child-rearing.
Romans 12:2 – And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
-This is the mindset we must begin with.
Ephesians 6:4 – And, ye fathers..bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
Proverbs 22:6 – Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
I won’t post Deut. 6 again. I would just like to point out though that it does say that “THOU shalt teach them diligently unto THY CHILDREN” and gives all of the circumstances to be included.
2 Tim 1:5 and 3:15 – When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,
Our next step is to examine the 3 models available to us. We must make generalizations here. Yes, some schools are better than others, and some homeschools are worse than others but on the whole which fits the best into these commandments? Public schools are a no brainer. That ship sinks with evolution. Christian schools stay afloat a little longer because after all the Bible is incorporated. Upon further examination though, the Bible tells us exactly who is to be raising children – parents. Why?
Deut. 6:20 And] when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What [mean] the testimonies, and the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD our God hath commanded you? Deut. 6:21 Then thou shalt say unto thy son..
Next question, When? besides Deut 6
Psalm 119:97: O how I love thy law! It is my meditation ALL THE DAY. Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for THEY ARE EVER WITH ME. 104 – Through thy precepts I get understanding.
If I were to miss one instance while my child is in a Christian school where I could impart Biblical wisdom to them, I would believe myself to be breaking commandments. Even the most godly Christian school teachers are incapable of monitoring all their pupils well enough to provide character training EVERY time it’s needed. Between those teachers and myself, who could come closer to doing it all day long? Me. I feel that I’ve “made my case” as best as I can here and that until I’m shown otherwise from the scriptures, that to continue to argue the point would run the risk of looking like strife. At the least, thank you for the lively debate. God has used it to cause me to evaluate my situation and strengthened my resolve to incorporate His word in our home more fully.:)
Kelly – So far as gov’t involvement is concerned, Teaching the Trivium by the Bluedorns wonderfully addresses this in chapter 2, Who Should Control Education: Parents, or the State? They point to Luke 20:25
Render therefore unto Caesar the things that be Caesar’s and unto God the things which be God’s.
They quote Charles F. Potter from an article in the Humanist magazine in 1930:”Education is thus a most powerful ally of Humanism, and every American public school is a school of Humanism. What can the theistic Sunday schools, meeting for an hour a week and teaching only a fraction of the children, do to stem the tide of a five-day program of humanisic teaching?”
Disgusting! And the gov’t is getting kids 3 years sooner than they used to then.
Alli – Go to hslda.org and click on your state. Hope that helps!
“I think I’ll pull out the old argument, “the Bible doesn’t specifically say “thou shalt not watch pornography”, but no Christian would say God approves such behavior” for this one.”
It doesn’t say the WORD “pornography,” but it DOES very clearly say that pornography is wrong. It says that we are to flee from sexual immorality, as well as not to lust after another man’s wife, which is exactly what pornography causes one to do. It’s a very simple addition problem that anyone can figure out, which is why there are very few Christians who would disagree with the fact that pornography is wrong.
Your exegesis isn’t a simple addition problem. It’s a stretch. And saying, “From a secular standpoint, yes the burden of proof lies on me since I am essentially saying an absolute. However…” denies the fact that logic isn’t a “secular” pursuit, it’s a gift that God has given us to use to make rational decisions. The burden of proof still lies on you, and I’d also like, if you have a chance, for you to expand your point that thinking it’s okay to send your child to school would be in effect the “adding to the Gospel” that John is talking about in Revelation. It’s an interesting concept.
I’d hesitate to call this discussion “strife,” simply because to my knowledge, we’re not speaking to each other in bitterness or anger. I see it more as using discussion to sharpen ourselves and each other. Correct me if I’m wrong. 😉
Hello all,
my wife pointing me over here so I thought I’d drop in my two cents. First of all, i think we can all agree that public schools are in a pretty horrible state and would hardly be considered the best option for our children’s education. That being said, I think we need to be careful with the assertion that God prohibits education outside of the home especially since such education methods have formed the Bible and Christianity as we know it.
First of all, I whole heartedly believe that it is the parents responsibility to raise their children in the faith; teaching them the Word of God and helping guide their relationship with Him. But we should remember that the Bible allows for others to contribute to religious development as Eli did with Samuel. In Samuel’s case, his education was more akin to boarding school than anything else. Yet this method was sanctioned by God and it created the greatest a prophet and leader since Moses.
One should also look at what the history of the Hebrew people tells us. The Hebrew people held literacy in high regard and created schools for the purpose of studying and copying the Torah. This would include the School of Scribes that was begun by Ezra. Children, even as young as 7, would attend these schools and study God’s Word. If it were not for these school’s, we would not have the wealth of information about the OT or the number of manuscripts that we do. So it is through public education that any of us are even able to quote the OT!
These schools continued to Jesus’s time, and though we can’t be certain as there is no account for Jesus’s childhood, it could be assumed that Jesus would have attended these schools as any Jew his age would have during that time. This was one of the positive influences of the Pharisees whose primary job it was to teach and educate young men about the Torah. It would seem that if this sort of education was so abhorrent that Jesus would have addressed it. It is obvious that he didn’t have a problem telling Pharisees that they were wrong, why would he leave this issue out of his criticism if it is such an offense to God?
Let me finish up this post by pointing out that not only has “public education” given us the Old Testament, but it was also responsible for the education of one of the greatest Christian leaders in the history of the church, Paul. So remember that, before you quote any of the epistles, that you are quoting a graduate of public education.
One more thing as just food for thought. I assume you are all aware of the girl who killed herself after being bullied on myspace. Imagine how that situation may have been different if she had a good Christian friend in her school to help her. Maybe that’s taking a bit of the Lifetime movie approach, but it still makes you think.
Great conversation.
I’m the wife he speaks of, by the way. 😉
I appreciate your input Dan…I am very aware as well about the history of education and the schools where Jewish children were taught.
Let’s suffice it to say, and I know you agree, that public education as we know it is unrecognizable compared to the schools of biblical times. Which is where I take my stance against public education, with no apologies.
Furthermore, not to agree or disagree with your comments, but just to point out a few considerations…
From what we can tell, the Jewish children who attended schools studied, almost exclusively, the Word of God. History would also reveal that they were not age-segregated, (another problem I’m not going to address right now.) We can assume the majority of the parents were godly, or else they would not send their children to copy Scripture. They likely didn’t spend 8 hours a day there, although I don’t know. And since families were not pulled in all directions by sports, t.v., homework, entertainment, etc., I would assume the children got a heavy dose of biblical teaching from parents at home.
With all those considerations, I would submit that hardly any school experience even compares to that.
Now, that doesn’t necessarily prove that home education is the ONLY way, but it’s worth taking into account.
Contrastly, the current school setting, including Christian schools, looks starkly different. The most obvious difference is that most children either don’t have believing parents, or most parents are failing to impart their faith to their children. (That’s a statistic, not my assumption.)
The result is that the majority of your child’s peer group has distinctly different values and worldview than your children.
And because school days are much longer than they once were, that leaves much less time for Christian parents to teach their children God’s ways at home.
THEN, add homework. Homework takes up a huge part of a child’s “free” time. (I’ve heard this is part of “the conspiracy 😉
for keeping parents from having any time to impart their family values.
Then consider the time families spend running like crazy to sports events, etc….
If you add to that both parents working, now they both have to share household responsibilities, which take up what is left of the night.
In short, I am not suggesting that “sending your children away from the home to educate them is wrong” per se.
But the reality of all these factors make it extremely difficult to carry out the biblical command of protecting, nurturing, training, etc. by parents.
Something can be not necessarily wrong, but still not be a great idea 🙂
Not that we need another angle to debate :-), but while we’re at it, we may as well cover everything!
I was wondering anyone’s opinion of the protection factor of parents over children–not so much emotionally, although that would be tied to it, but I’m talking about physical protection.
If a child is treated inappropriately in his parents’ absence, is the parent held accountable for the lack of physical protection?
I know some of you hate it when I drag up OT laws, but it is there for our “instruction”, so I’m thinking about how when a girl lost her virginity, her father was held largely responsible. The implication was that he was to guard her physical presence at all times.
It may sound absurd to those who haven’t considered this level of protection before, but it is a very real issue that needs to be thought out.
WOW! I haven’t been over here for a while and now I have a head ache after reading all of THAT! lol…
First and foremost Government education is unconstitutional!
Second, who decides what is a “proper education”? Go though most any fast food place and you’ll learn real quick that the average teen ager has a hard time making change without the cash register telling them what to give. Most cannot even tell you who the Vice President is nor who their Sate Representative is. And how in the world can some kids graduate from public school and not know how to read? I think this is more common than most are willing to admit.
WHY should the Government choose what is an appropriate age for a child to begin and end their “proper education”.
WHY should I have to get permission to educate MY children? I know of some parents that do NOT do a good job of teaching their kids. But I also know of public school teachers that do an awful job too. I personally experienced that as a high school student. Have you ever had a teacher that was also the coach of the football team? Guess where he was all the time? Not in class. It happened 20 years ago and it still happens today. No matter what, there will always be a few bad apples in each camp, but that should not take away my GOD GIVEN right to teach my own kids. God ordained parents to teach their children, not Government.
Salt and Light? If Christians are sincerely concerned about their children being salt and light to the lost kids why not send them to a Muslim school? Those kids need salvation too? What the God-rejecting Government schools are teaching (evolution as fact, politically correct history- which is actually lies, sex ed, etc…)is no better than what they’d learn in a Muslim, Buddhist, etc.. school.
Last point; Who TRUST the Government to do the right thing with your tax dollars? If they cannot be trusted with money, why do so many blindly had their children over for the majority of their childhood???
I am really enjoying reading this debate. I don’t have much to add as I am still forming my opinion, but I really appreciate the input of others. I feel like I’m watching a tennis match…lol.
I do have a question though, what is the general opinion of cyber schools? I ask because my children are enrolled in one. In our state they are funded by the public school taxes. We get the curriculum (which is Calvert’s homeschool curriculum) and we teach them. Because my children are young (Kindergarten and first grade) they do nothing on the computer. I test them every 20 lessons and send that test into the cyber school to be graded. I’m free to add or take anything away from the curriculum. At this point, they are only tested on math and reading. So I can adjust the science and social studies stuff however I see fit. I am free to add spiritual elements anywhere I want.
There were many reasons we chose this over traditional homeschooling. The biggest of which is the cost…NOTHING…lol. However the attitude of the local homeschooling community is that we are NOT homeschoolers and are fooling ourselves into thinking so because our children are still under the “strong” arm of the public school system. We are not allowed to enroll in local homeschooler clubs are participate in homeschooler activities. Thankfully, the cyberschool provides plenty of opportunites for us.
So, I’m just wondering, what’s the big deal?
Who do our children belong to?
The U.S. Government or God?
-Amy
Out On a Limb,
I wonder if you have to jump through the Governments hoops, THEIR choice of curriculum, THEIR grading system, THEIR reports, THEIR schedule, etc…? Personally, I think that the choice of curriculum is the biggest factor. No curriculum is natural. After 15 years of teaching my children I can tell you that choice curriculum and teaching style are very important.
I appreciate the fact that you are taking the responsibility of keeping your children home with you. You will have lots of fun memories of tying those heart strings with them.
In my last post I meant to say that no curriculum is neutral, not natural. :o)
Out On A Limb,
While I can’t give specific details, I do know that the Home Schooling Legal Defense Assoc. speaks out against cyber schools. I THINK that it’s because ultimately gov’t has control and somehow cyber schools threaten homeschooling in general? Perhaps their site has more info. I’m certain that they’ve published “horror” stories in their quarterly magazine.
I’ve actually never heard of cyber schools. For those of you who homeschool, how much influence does the government have in your choice of curriculum? Are there state-approved curriculum, or does it just matter that your kids pass the testing at the end?
It is our duty to nurture and protect our children. I will say that keeping them out of public schools and even Christian schools, and instead, keeping them home under your own wings is the best way to nurture and protect them. If you happen to know the Christian school very well, and the teachers and administrators and the general make-up of the attending students, and you approve of it, as if it were like your own family, I see nothing wrong with your own child’s attendance there. How often would that happen, though? The best and easiest way to ensure that your children will grow up to be approved of by you and your spouse, their parents, is to do the training yourselves.
Even in Christian schools, there may not be much in-depth training in scripture, and the teaching and interpreting of it may be shockingly different from your own viewpoints. How will you be made aware of these differences being taught to your children if you do send them to a Christian school? Are you able to detract from them daily all the important, character-forming lessons they learn there? How will you know if they have learned what the Bible says and not just what their teacher thinks the Bible says? These things are much easier to spot and correct (if they misunderstand something spiritual or have a differing opinion of scripture than you do) when they are always at home with you. I prefer to keep mine under my own watchful eyes and listening ears, and to teach them the things that I believe.
–B.
Word warrior,
Interesting points, i just wanted to correct a few things.
you said, “From what we can tell, the Jewish children who attended schools studied, almost exclusively, the Word of God. History would also reveal that they were not age-segregated, (another problem I’m not going to address right now.) We can assume the majority of the parents were godly, or else they would not send their children to copy Scripture.”
First of all, your statement that the children studied the Word of God almost exclusively is in some ways right but misunderstood and in otherways wrong. Let me explain. Certainly studying the Torah was the primary focus of these students but, since they were living in a jewish theocracy, there was not much need for different subjects as non-jews in other states would need. There would be no need for a seperate history class because they were jewish, this was their history. There would be no need for a seperate political science class because they were a theocracy, this was their law. This would go for philosophy as well. I think in a modern context, there is an absolute need (especially for Christians) to study history, law, and philosophy and unfortunately, the Bible alone cannot fit the bill like it could for the jews (although it is the basis for al these subjects even in modern day times).
Where you are wrong is in your assertion that these schools only taught the Word and that they didn’t seperate based on age. Two proofs that they weren’t exclusive off the top of my head are the Septuagint and Paul’s writings. The septuagint was an extremely influential translation of the Torah into greek. Now this wouldn’t be like translating someting into spanish, Greek is a very complex language so anyone attempting to translate to or from would have to know not only the grammar but the culture as well. This would seem to show that the Jews were not only studying their own culture but the influential cultures of the time. THis is shown again in Paul’s life and writings. Think of the incident at Mars hill where Paul shows astounding knowledge of Greek philosophy and looking to the epistles we have tons of Platonic concepts that are blatently and intentioanlly used by Paul. Finally, the Jews did divide their education according to age. They established the Bet Sefer for ages 6-12, the Bet Midrash for ages 13-15, and the Bet Talmud for ages 15-30. This would coincide with the traidtional rights assigned to boys of certain ages. We are all familiar with the tradition of Jewish boys becoming men at 13 and also the age of 30 being the point when you could speak and teach publicly (thus Jesus beginning his ministry at 30).
You made some good points about how, in many ways the public school degrades the family with the length of the school day, the extracurricular activities, etc and that made me think. Perhaps public schools are a scape goat for a greater problem. It seems that many issues with public school are not inherent to public school itself, but were brought about by the communities we live in. In my opinion, schools are not taking our kids away from us as much as we are forcing our kids on the schools and telling them to keep an eye on them while we live our lives (we being society on a whole, not we on this blog necessarily). So yes, these are problems in the schools, but to attack the schools is attacking the symptom not the cause.
If I could for a moment share what my wife and i are probably going to do with our kids as far as education goes, I’d be interested to hear some opinions. we both attend a wonderful church in our town called Immanuel Lutheran. It is theologically very sound and we have a great relationship with the pastors and many of the staff. The church has a school that is well run and has a deep commitment to encouraging the faith of its students through study and service. All of the teachers must attend an LCMS congregation and be in good standing (most attend our church and we know personally). The school is not only excellent in religious education but it has surpassed all the public schools in the quality of its general education (which is saying a lot since out public schools in the area rank very high). The reason we would like to send out children here is becuase they woulod be learning in the same place that they worship and building their faith within a strong community that our entire family participates in. This is one of the features that I think is lacking in home schooling (for many people anyway); community. Developing a child’s faith is absolutely the parents’ responsibility and we take that charge very seriously, but, just as it was intended by God, faith must also be developed within the community where our children can learn how to be one in the Spirit with their Chistian brothers and sisters.
So that’s what we are thinking of doing, just thought i’d throw that out there.
Mrs. Sara, and others who hold the opinion that the government should control education I would like to hear you opinion on this question:
Who do our children belong to?
The U.S. Government or God?
Thank you!
Amy
“Mrs. Sara, and others who hold the opinion that the government should control education I would like to hear you opinion on this question:”
Haha! Nice try. I never said the government SHOULD control education, I said that as long as they’re providing social programs that benefit folks who don’t have the education to support themselves, it would be silly for them NOT to have some say in how children are educated.
In a perfect situation, there would be no need for government interference, of course.
“building their faith within a strong community that our entire family participates in”
What is wrong with children building their faith within their family? You seem to be saying that children need to build their faith within some other community, as if family and church are not enough. Correct me if I am wrong.
“This is one of the features that I think is lacking in home schooling (for many people anyway); community.”
I suppose that depends on your definition of “community”. Please expand on this 🙂
“Developing a child’s faith is absolutely the parents’ responsibility and we take that charge very seriously,”
I am so glad that you take it very seriously, many Christian parents do not.
“but, just as it was intended by God, faith must also be developed within the community where our children can learn how to be one in the Spirit with their Chistian brothers and sisters.”
I thought that is what the church is for? I’m just trying to clarify because it seems to me like you are saying that home and church are not enough, as if children need to be going to a Christian school to get these things. Which, I might add that not all children at Christian schools are “brother and sisters in Christ”. Plus, as a school’s focus is mostly academic I would guess that is what they spend most of their time doing- “school learning”. How much time is really spent on “being one in the Spirit” or purposely building their faith?
Amy
Mrs. Sara,
I am sorry for misunderstanding you, yet you have still not answered my question.
Amy
“I am sorry for misunderstanding you, yet you have still not answered my question.”
Please take this with my genuine tone of respect, but I didn’t answer your question because it’s foolish. There’s no question who children belong to, and my opinions on this topic are not shaped by a faulty belief that children belong to the state.
“Who do our children belong to?
The U.S. Government or God?”
Wow, let’s hear it for double barrel questions.
There is really no good way to answer that question, but I guess i would say that children belong to God, but God allows for governments to rule and we should respect those governments so much as they do not contradict God.
I support the government overseeing education in our country for the simple fact that it has the welfare of the state to maintain and part of that would be to make surethat its citizens have a basic level of skills. Without government oversight, there would be a huge differnce in what kids know when they get out into the workforce or try to get into college. There need to be universal standards becuase not every college and employer can afford to put every one of their prospective employees/students through basic skills tests.
The government isn’t forcing parents to teach evolution (although let’s be clear that there is a big difference between microevolution and macroevolution and anyone weighing into that debate should be aware of that) or that God doesn’t exist or that homosexuality is a valid lifestyle. They are simply making sure that American workers can compeat in the global market.
One thing I noticed in your comment, Dan, is that even in the Jewish schools there was school for *children* and then two different schools for *adult men*.
That’s still vastly different from say, 7-8 grades from Kindergarten to age 13. I would hesitate to call that “age segregation” since all the children are learning together.
My husband, an extremely friendly fellow, actually knew some of the grade above and many of the grade above. If you ask him about a sibling of a friend, it’s not uncommon for him to shrug and say “he would have been a freshmen” or “she would have been two grades below me” so he wouldn’t have known them at all.
Being homeschooled myself, I find it rather weird that every single one of my husband’s friends is 24,25, or 26. About 90% of everyone I’ve met has been 25. Or I meet them and it’s, “This is Ben, he was in my brother’s class” or this person was a year above me. Why bother to tell me this? I don’t care, lol! The fact is, he went to the same school for 12 years and it almost seems to me that the grades are sort of like tribal groupings. Equals are assumed, but those a grade above or below are pointed out. Like it matters!
It’s just something I’ve noticed not coming from that kind of background.
________________________
I have recently been evaluating just how much my children *need* to learn. How much do they *need* to excel at college? For example, my history went like this:
2nd grade: American history
3rd grade: World history
4th grade: American history w/detail
5th grade: World history w/detail
And so on and so on. By the time I hit 6-7th grade, I was incredibly bored. I enjoyed reading about the Alamo, or specific historical books about individuals, but I was tired of going over the same things. By the time I took American History 101 in college, I didn’t have the dates memorized. Did my 10+ years of rehashing the same info help me that much?
This is my plan: My children and I are going to read about the Pilgrim fathers. The Santa Fe Trail. Lewis and Clark. John Adams. Indians. Cowboys. And then somewhere along the line we’ll get a book of American history that ties it together in a big picture. Hopefully we get even more ideas on who we want to read about. The same goes for World history. Martin Luther, William Penn.
Okay, so then one of my children goes to college and takes History 101. What if they haven’t come across the fact, ever before, that XYZ happened in 1323? The important thing is that they will have learned how to study! And I think they will actually have a bigger picture of history, in more detail, than someone going through the current grade-by-grade system, even homeschooled as I was!
I know, I’m crazy, but I’m going to do the same with biology. We’ll go to the library and get books on flower guts during the summer while they are blooming so we can look at the real stemens and pestils and I’m just going to cram them full of learning when they have no idea they are even in school.
The amount of time my children will spend sitting at a table doing workbooks (math, english, etc) will be limited. Enough for them to be fluent. But what I want them to master is an understanding of the Word of God.
I fear that public/Christian schools teach acedemics. Christian schools have a Bible class and squeeze God in. I want to live my life filled for God and squeeze in the essential acedemics!
I know too many parents who boast about their child knowing the ABC’s or counting to 100 in English and Spanish, and memorizing Scripture doesn’t cross their minds. Just like other parents focus on sports. These things profit but a little! We have the chance to impart to our children the Words of Life!
I have read almost half a dozen books of the Bible to my son this year. KJV, lol. Does he understand it? I have no idea. Pretty pictures? No. But my 20 month old *runs* to stand on his tippy toes and get my Bible off the dresser and carries it into his bedroom where I can sit in my rocker and read him a chapter as he lays down for a nap. May he never, ever lose this enthusasim!!!!
Anyway, I share this story to illustrate that my goal is to impart a love for God and the things of God. Not for my children to excell in math or spelling.
There is such a push these days – if you don’t graduate high school, you’ll never amount to anything and end up in jail!
NO, if you don’t love God and serve Him in everything you do and say and think, THEN you won’t amount to anything! For what does it matter if we gain the whole world but lose our soul?
A very impassioned homeschool graduate who has absolutely no fear of sacrificing most of her time to teach her own children,
Ashley
http://www.homesteadblogger.com/Jonash2004
“It seems that many issues with public school are not inherent to public school itself, but were brought about by the communities we live in. In my opinion, schools are not taking our kids away from us as much as we are forcing our kids on the schools and telling them to keep an eye on them while we live our lives (we being society on a whole, not we on this blog necessarily). So yes, these are problems in the schools, but to attack the schools is attacking the symptom not the cause.”
Dan, I think you have made a very good point! It starts with the parent. It’s my responsibility to control who I let have a significant influence over my children.
This question is not foolish. I know that you do not believe that your children belong to the state, and I also don’t believe that your opinions on this are “shaped by a faulty belief that children belong to the state”. I am sorry you took it that way, I did not mean for it to imply that in any way.
It was just a simple question because if one believes that our children belong to God(as I know that you do, I just want to be clear that I never thought otherwise), then He should determine how they are to be educated/what they should be educated about, not the state. I wanted to hear from those who believe the government has the right to a say in how children are educated, because I cannot find anything that would point me in a direction of agreeing with this at all (not in the constitution, not in the Bible, etc.). I hope that more people still respond. If our children belong to God then we should take our cues from Him on how they should be trained, raised, disciplined (as I am sure you would agree), and educated.
Sometimes questions like this, though the answer is obvious, need to be thought about again to get down to the root of the matter.
Amy
**Please accept my apologies if you feel I was rude in anything I have said. I do not mean to be. I really enjoy this discussion and it has made for some lively conversations between my husband and I!
Ashley,
Your thoughts are exactly on track with what I am thinking- you are just much better at putting it into words that I am! We know from the Bible that the most important thing we can teach our children is the Word of God- who God is, His works, etc. And I feel that all of us commenting here believe that wholeheartedly (isn’t it nice to be around many people who have that in common, even if we don’t agree in other areas?) Anway, I guess what I am trying to say is that to me, everything else “academic” is secondary to learning, knowing, and loving God and His Word. I would rather my children be walking with the Lord than “book smart”. Most things that you really NEED to know to get by, are easily learnt and remembered, things that you by no means need to go to school for. Of course there are some jobs which require more skills in certain areas, but not everyone will hold this kind of position. One huge benefit of homeschooling that I see is that by being around your children all day, you are really able to see where God has gifted them and as they start thinking of what God would have them to do when they are older, you can form their education around that goal- if they need X,Y, and Z classes to get them there then they can go for it, if not then there is no need to pursue that and they are free to take other, non-traditional paths to lead them in the way God wants them to go.
You are right on when you say:
“NO, if you don’t love God and serve Him in everything you do and say and think, THEN you won’t amount to anything! For what does it matter if we gain the whole world but lose our soul?”
I am so glad that you shared your thoughts- well, my thoughts (lol) better than I could 🙂 Thanks!
Amy
Hi Amy!
Don’t worry, I didn’t get offended. When I said foolish, I think I probably should have said that it was valid question that was asked in the wrong way. As my husband, Dan, pointed out, the question was rather double-barreled.
Dan summed up our shared opinion on this matter rather neatly. I tried to do so in an earlier post, but I’m afraid I wasn’t as concise in my explanation. I think the confusion comes when you try to blend a theological argument with a political one. There are two different discussions being had, and that makes things hard to understand. But our reason for believing the government has a right to have some hand in education is political, not theological. It’s a fact that our country has a stake in each child’s future, as they will be the ones continuing our society.
Theologically there are other issues to consider, but as Dan pointed out, the government is not forcing parents to teach anything that’s against the parents’ religious beliefs. So it seems like the issue here is one of convenience. It would be great to be able to come up with your own curriculum involving whatever you wanted, and in some ways you do have that freedom. But for the sake of being submitted to the government, which God has placed in authority over us, we need to understand that they have a responsibility to our country and our society, as well as to our children, and our compliance with their laws is furthering the well-being of not only our children, but also the future of our country.
In Europe, Richard Dawkins has stated that it is child abuse to teach a minor about God.
What happens if that comes to America? I think our government is very close to trying to regulate what children do and do not learn. There is already a UN ‘Right of the Child Act’ in place in most of the world except for the USA.
At what point do we decide to obey God rather than man?
If I were to do nothing but teach my child to read using the Bible, to write using the Bible and let’s say he gets a rudemendary knowledge of math along the way. Is that going to hurt the future of our country?
I thought the government was in place to give us freedom. Actually, the government seems to be in place these days to ‘protect us from ourselves’.
Freedoms are slipping through our fingers like sand. Our rights to speak about sin. Our rights to educate our children – or not educate our children!
I know that sounds gastly. The farther back you go in American history, the more freedom we had, the more literate people were. We were a nation of readers, of hard workers who discussed heavy topics and didn’t sit in front of the TV night after night laughing along with canned laughter.
The government is so strong already. Our only hope is people who are willing to take care of themselves…. I don’t trust what the public school system is producing to make this country’s future great.
How many Peter Pans do you know? Little boys that won’t grow up in the 20’s and 30’s? I think it’s only going to get worse…..
Ashley
http://www.homesteadblogger.com/Jonash2004
“But my 20 month old *runs* to stand on his tippy toes and get my Bible off the dresser and carries it into his bedroom where I can sit in my rocker and read him a chapter as he lays down for a nap. May he never, ever lose this enthusasim!!!! “
My 2 1/2 yr. old sets everyone out their “Bi -boes” every night for devotions on his own. Doesn’t it make your heart soar? God bless you!
Quinn
“If I were to do nothing but teach my child to read using the Bible, to write using the Bible and let’s say he gets a rudemendary knowledge of math along the way. Is that going to hurt the future of our country?”
Yes, I believe that it WILL hurt the future of our country. A basic, rudimentary understanding of math is something that is going to drastically cut back on the options of the child that possesses them. He won’t be able to compete in an ever-increasingly math- and computer-driven workforce. He’ll be completely disqualified from any work in the medical field, engineering, not to mention a multitude of other fields. And if we’re raising a generation of kids with the skills to be a burger-flipper, that’s exactly what our nation is going to turn into. A full and complete education helps allow children to reach their full potential, to exercise their God-given gifts, and to be fully capable of ministering to the suffering world around them. Who will create medications for the ill if there are no chemists with the math and science skills to figure them out? Who will deliver food to remote impoverished nations if there are no children with the skills it takes to pilot a plane out to them? The whole world suffers when people are uneducated.
“The farther back you go in American history, the more freedom we had, the more literate people were.”
That’s just not true. The farther back we go in American history, we see how class and race affected whether you were educated and literate or not. Public school was created to provide an education for those who had no other way of attaining it. EVERYONE, regardless of class, race, gender, or creed, could go to a free public school and have the same opportunities to succeed as the rich white kids. I’ll say more on that in a second, gotta run right now.
“There is already a UN ‘Right of the Child Act’ in place in most of the world except for the USA. “
This is so scary! Everyone drop what you’re doing and get over to parentalrights.org and sign the petition for a constitutional ammendment to protect our rights as parents!
(This is being organized by HSLDA)
I read in this issue of HSLDA’s quarterly magazine that under this a child’s economic rights are being violated if they don’t get enought to eat. A child’s social rights are being violated if they don’t get to play enough!!! (I’m guessing that lets out training your children to work productively in the home) If we as parents make decisions for our children that the UN doesn’t think are in the child’s best interest, it’s a violation of their civil rights. – That could be anything!
Mrs. Sara – In response to your last post, I think that one of the many beauties of homeschooling is that not only does it teach children to love to learn, but it teaches them how to learn. That opens up a world of possibilities for them.
Anonymous,
“Mrs. Sara – In response to your last post, I think that one of the many beauties of homeschooling is that not only does it teach children to love to learn, but it teaches them how to learn. That opens up a world of possibilities for them.”
I’m not quite sure how that related to what I said before, but thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’d say a homeschooling parent CAN teach children to love to learn, and how to learn, but it’s not an isolated merit of homeschooling that automatically causes these things to take place. Just like in a public or private school, the responsibility lies on the teacher or parent to foster the love of knowledge in their children. These things can be neglected in homeschooling, just as they can be neglected in public or private schools.
Peace,
Sara
“In New England, the literacy rate was over 50 percent during the first half of the 17th century, and it rose to 70 percent by 1710. By the time of the American Revolution, it was around 90 percent. This is seen by some as a side effect of the Puritan belief in the importance of Bible reading.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy
There is even a fun graph to look at in regards to world, but it only goes back to 1970.
Not everyone is going to need educated to the greatest degree possible. I’m talking a smattering of Algebra here, not stopping with multiplying 6×4. Even then, if someone is going to pilot food to the rest of the world, someone has to pick & pack it.
My BIL enjoys working with his hands. So he makes more, about twice as much, without a degree as a craftsman than my husband does as an mechanical engineer. LOL I guess that means he’s not meeting his full potential, eh? Or is it okay because he makes well above minimum wage?
http://www.homesteadblogger.com/Jonash2004
Ashley,
“My BIL enjoys working with his hands. So he makes more, about twice as much, without a degree as a craftsman than my husband does as an mechanical engineer. LOL I guess that means he’s not meeting his full potential, eh? Or is it okay because he makes well above minimum wage?”
You’re the one equating “full potential” with making large amounts of money. I didn’t say a single word about money or degrees. I was simply talking about being as educated as we can in order to fulfill the call that God has on our lives. Some of us are called to be fruit pickers, and some of us are called to be pilots. The point I was making was that if we don’t equip our children to the best of our abilities and educate them as much as possible on a variety of topics, their options are going to be narrowed, and they’ll be ill prepared to fulfill whatever it is that God has called them to do.
Ashley,
That IS a pretty nifty graph. Too bad your statistics don’t include whether slaves were included, whether literacy was defined the way we define it today or whether it just meant the ability to sign your own name, don’t take into consideration poverty and geographical area, nor do they look at the fact that in 1700, the US population was around 250,000 people. Seeing as how we’ve gone from 250,000 people to over 300 million, it’s not quite an effective way to judge based on percentages of literacy alone, ESPECIALLY with the changing definition of literacy. We now have spectrum of literacy to functional illiteracy to complete illiteracy, whereas at other times in our nation’s history it was based on whether you could write your name or not.
I meant perhaps that one would assume he’s not reached his full potential because he has less of an education than my husband. For some reason, it doesn’t seem to matter if someone drops out of school at the 6th grade if later they are a millionaire.
My point with the “mainly Bible and a smattering of math” illustration is that it is quite possible for the state – and yourself – to proclaim that this is inadequate when in fact it may be all that the student needs.
I do agree that we should educate our children to the best of our abilities. That is going to vary from person to person, and I’m not sure it’s up to the government to say what is and isn’t adequate to meet the future.
I apologize for any missunderstandings, this thread is becoming rather long to scroll up and down and re-read what is happening at the bottom!
“I meant perhaps that one would assume he’s not reached his full potential because he has less of an education than my husband. For some reason, it doesn’t seem to matter if someone drops out of school at the 6th grade if later they are a millionaire.”
I see what you’re saying. Let me assure you that I see someone reaching their full potential when they are fulfilling God’s destiny for their lives, whatever that destiny is and however much school it takes to get there. There’s certainly a difference between being educated and being a success. And between being rich and being a success, as well. Paris Hilton may be a millionaire, but I don’t really see her as all that successful of a person! 😉
I grabbed the first bit of data I could find to support my point that literacy gets better the farther you go back.
I have heard many remarkable tales of the things people would do in such days in order to be literate. Such as Abraham Lincoln’s efforts. (Which is the first to come to mind with a name attached and he dates much later than the info I shared, of course.)
However, I doubt I’m going to come across something within the next few days particularly convincing to make my point. And I have nothing to share on the slaves or Native Americans of the period, although I should at least know about the native Americans because I have studied them in-depth, their literacy rate has not been retained by my memory!
I do understand that literacy has had different defintions over time.
The original question was “Should the Government Control Education?” – I don’t trust the government. I don’t think it knows what is best for my family, so I say NO. I would like it if the government would stay far away and not breath down my neck like I feel it does at times. If there are public schools, fine. But I think they should be very, very optional! 🙂
I’m tired of debating this, actually. 🙂 I’m off to cook dinner. It’s been very interesting, ya’ll. I’ve enjoyed sharing ideas!
Blessings!
“I have heard many remarkable tales of the things people would do in such days in order to be literate. Such as Abraham Lincoln’s efforts.”
And if public schools and literate parents weren’t so readily available at this particular moment in time, I’m sure we would be having equally remarkable tales of people fighting for literacy. 🙂
Dan and Mrs. Sara,
I think it’s safe to say that you guys aren’t necessarily for or against any form of education a parent chooses, believing that all forms are acceptable…am I right? To that my last comments are:
Of course, as Christians, we are called to bring all of our life choices under the direction of God’s will. Where there are no explicit prohibitions, we must take the counsel of Scripture and apply it to ascertain God’s leading.
This post started out as an emphatic statement of my belief that Christian parents should not send their children to public school if there are any alternatives whatsoever.
Most Americans want to believe that the NEA’s agenda is harmless and in the best interest of our children. But one has the choice to continue believing that, remaining purposely ignorant, or one can do the necessary research to find the truth. I believe it is our Christian duty to discover truth.
According to the NEA’s agenda and the professed goals of many public school advocates, the aim of public education is no longer merely to provide adequate academia (which they do a lousy job at, statistically); their aim is to proselytize–that is “convert” children to a new way of thinking.
What is this new way of thinking?
Erase all absolutes.
There is no God.
There is no such thing as sin.
Homosexuality is an acceptable choice of lifestyle.
Sex is a free expression of the human nature, and therefore children should be able to “express themselves” safely (and we’ll gladly dispense contraceptives to them.)
Everyone deserves the same treatment, favors, privileges, etc., REGARDLESS of his personal dedication and effort.
There is no difference in gender.
And there is more, but time prohibits me.
Considering the above FACTS, I believe it is ludicrous to think a Christian parent could be fulfilling the written will of God to train up children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, and yet allow them to be under the indoctrination of such wicked teaching for the better part of their day/lives. (Subtleness doesn’t make it less wicked, for those who are thinking I’m blowing things out of proportion. It is the subtle methods themselves that make indoctrination possible.)
It’s so much bigger than “oh no, they’ve taken prayer out of schools”. And we have got to snap out of our apathy and reclaim our children.
If the pagans teach them, they will most likely become pagans, save the grace of God.
(Of course, I must disclaim: I don’t mean “pagans” singularly, as in the teachers themselves, although there are plenty of them. But the system as a whole of being a recognized, God-rejecting system.)
I feel obligated to beg parents on this issue. It’s not me standing with hands on hip “speaking my brazen opinion”…it is me, with tears in my eyes, as if I know about a cliff at the end of the road you’re driving on. No caring person would just let you keep driving…
Kelly,
“I think it’s safe to say that you guys aren’t necessarily for or against any form of education a parent chooses, believing that all forms are acceptable…am I right?”
Not quite. As I’ve said a number of times before, I don’t think it’s the best idea to send young Christian children to public school. But as our children grow and mature, becoming stronger in their faith, we’ll take a serious look at when exactly they’ll be able to handle being sent out into “the world” to be the salt and light that God is calling them to be. We don’t personally have a reputable Christian high school in our area, and I know that I wouldn’t be very effective at teaching high school topics, but if we truly believed that they were in spiritual danger, of course we wouldn’t send them out to be harmed.
It’s just going to depend on the child. As Alli, my sister in law, stated in an earlier post, my husband was able to be salt and light in his public high school, bring her and her friends to salvation. There can be beautiful opportunities for Christian kids in public high school! 🙂
Thanks for this discussion, it’s been really interesting.
I agree with Ashley, to a point, about taking more time to teach spiritual things, rather than academics. How do we do this, though? There sure is a lot of time in the day to portion out, and many days in a year, and many years of our childrens’ lives that are spent at home. Does anyone have suggestions?
—B.
Mrs. Sarah, I agree with Kathy’s comment that we could just as well send our children to a Muslim school to be salt and light. While they are young and growing in their knowledge of the world and growing in their faith, it is important to keep our children guarded and guided, not out in a spiritually challenging and contradictory environment, and not with shady characters, the unenlightened, and scoffers as peers. Our children will become much stronger “missionaries” later on if we nurture their faith and strengthen it daily through Christian schooling, surrounding them with Christian peers as role models. Keep out the junk while they are so influential. What goes in, will come out some day. So, while you say that there are some who have helped lead others to Christ in a public school situation, I will say that that is not what we are to send them to school to do. They are just babes in Christ, in respect to their own lives, and are in the time of training. They will more than likely be influenced in the wrong way, than be able to influence others in the right way. Also, don’t you think that children sent to public schools by their Christian parents would question their parents’ decision to do so eventually? They might even come to the conclusion that public school is a good thing for Christians, since their Christian parents sent them there. They would start to accept the teaching there, too, as being Christian. It happens all the time.
I think it is wonderful that your church has a school that you feel very comfortable with, for your children. Would you also consider teaching them some of the subjects at home or some of their first years at home to see if there may be a difference between your homeschooling and their schooling? What if you guys have a falling-out with your church? I don’t hope that happens, but it is a fact that many families, especially fundamental Christian families, end up changing churches several times. They leave because they adjust as they grow in faith and belief practices, or because of changes within the church which become unacceptable to them.
–B.
Holy cow! I’m busy for a few days, and this post explodes 😀 Wow! Good thoughts all around, but as a homeschool-er who was homeschooled, I do want to make a quick statement about the “lack of community” comment.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Your average homeschooler isn’t a sequestered individual who never functions outside of the home. In fact, I have read several studies that show homeschoolers score consistently higher or at the same level in social matters. As a homeschooler, I have the freedom to interact with all different kinds and ages of people, not just a small, close-knit group of my peers.
And many homeschoolers reach out to each other, whether in their church or in the larger homeschooling community. They form co-ops and meet-ups and field trip days. Many homeschoolers also take advantage of community programs or sports programs as well. I honestly believe that I received a better social education homeschooled than my peers who were not homeschooled. I have no problem relating to anyone of any age, and it was a skill that served me well when I was in the workforce. I actually have yet to meet the over-sheltered, overly-immediate-family-focused nerdy homeschooler. Most people are surprised when I mention my schooling background because I seem so “normal”, and I’m not sure whether to be pleased or insulted :P. I have dear friends to this day that I met in homeschool functions when I was young. And not all of my homeschool experiences were strictly like-minded Christians either.
Really, I could go on and on, but let me assure you that in nearly every place that homeschooling is legal, there is a thriving underground of homeschool community. 🙂
Mrs. T.,
Well said…I’ve been meaning to respond to that issue as well, but as you see, I’m exhausted from all the other angles of debate!!!
It’s interesting that people who do not homeschool generally hold the typical misconceptions about HS., while those who are plugged in witness the fallacies of those misconceptions.
I foget there is a whole culture of people who have never really “seen” homeschoolers!
My comment to the “lack of community” argument is, “if we were any more community-oriented, we’d be living together!”